Watch of Today

[watchweasol]

Hi  I can vouch for the superglue and nut method, it sounds brutal but works evert time.   remove with acetone.

[AndyHull]

  

5 hours ago, Gramham said:

Does anyone have anything to say about Shanghai watches? 

Has anyone worked on something similar?  Any advice?

Probably a variant of the "Tongji" or "Chinese Standard Movement".

The quality of these varies enormously. Some are good, some.. not so much.
Easy enough to work on, and not too much of a show stopper if anything is broken as most parts are generally interchangeable between different models, (but not always), and parts movements are plentiful.  

Edited August 23, 2022 by AndyHull

[dadistic]

I've owned a couple of Shanghai watches over the years, they are one of the more reputable Chinese brands.

They're on Tmall,

https://shanghai.world.tmall.com/shop/view_shop.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.1aEP97&user_number_id=831659287

To quote the Chinese Watch Wiki,  http://chinesewatchwiki.net/Shanghai_Watch_Factory

"The Shanghai Watch Factory is one of China's oldest and most renowned watch makers"

"Beijing" is another top brand with some history.

Cheers!

[Gramham]

11 hours ago, AndyHull said:

  

Probably a variant of the "Tongji" or "Chinese Standard Movement".

The quality of these varies enormously. Some are good, some.. not so much.
Easy enough to work on, and not too much of a show stopper if anything is broken as most parts are generally interchangeable between different models, (but not always), and parts movements are plentiful.  

Hello @AndyHull,

Thank you very much for the link and resource.

Very interesting history!  I had no idea...but it makes sense what they did - in the period of military emergency that has existed since the end of WWII in China - to mandate that timepieces nationwide share a homologous movement, thus eliminating the need for watch repair technicians to waste time mastering more than one.  Very pragmatic and very CCP.

Before the Communist Party came to power, China wasn't really timepiece oriented.  I dimly remember visiting the clock pavilion in the Forbidden City about 20 years ago.  It was filled with ornate clocks that foreign nations had given to the (then) ruling class in the hopes of currying favorable trade terms with them.  This would be gifts presented to the Empress Dowager, Cixi (1835 - 1908) and her string of chosen successors, which included the Last Emperor of China, Puyi (1906 - 1967).  One of their most sacred duties was to perform planting and harvest oriented ceremonial rites in the Temple of Heaven, which was constructed in 1406 for that purpose.  When I visited it, you could just walk around the place.  There were no crowd and no security to speak of.



Back to the Hall of Clocks in the Forbidden City.  The Hall  was empty, dusty and not very well lit.  Some of the larger desk and mantle clocks were under simple Plexiglas barriers, others just scattered around on tables and there were also a few floor-standing models (I think).  If I remember right, there were little yellowed cards that said things like "Gift from Ambassador of France, 1892" with no further details. There was nobody around.  Nothing was running.  There were no tour guides or tape recorded tours back then.

Consequently, it was definitely a "meh" experience, but I wonder how things look (and how I'd react now that I've evolved into a "watch geek") after China has exploded economically - which usually creates the kind of prosperity that results in people having enough resources and free time to become clock and watch geeks.  I bet things have changed dramatically, both in terms of setup and interest level.  Looking at recent photos, it seems they've spruced up the place, but the clocks all look the same:

BTW - I believe that name for this "unified" movement is also likely to have been a very clever Chinese homonym, which is one of the hallmarks of a language of only 800 sounds and tons of consequent puns, play-on-words and humor...as well as several examples of well-intentioned portmanteau-style words like the Standard Chinese sounds for "Coca-Cola" and "America", for example.

The word for Comrade in Standard Chinese is, phonetically speaking, "Tong Je Men", or "Comrade Perrson", which can sometimes be reduced in common speech to the short form "Tong Je".  When I was living in Beijing, it was very common for people to hail each other in this way, especially if they did not know each other that well.  I remember that the older generation used the term habitually, especially if they were Communist Party members or had been participants in military action.

The verbalization for the name of this watch movement is "Tong Gee" which is phonetically extremely close to "Tong Je" and it would only take a tiny change in the vocalization of these two terms to slip verbally from one to the other.  I wonder if that's not an accident when you consider how important timekeeping is for a country and government that places such an emphasis on the military aspect of things, of which time management is a critical element.  For instance, did you know that China has only one time zone?  Everything in China runs according to Beijing time. 

NOTE:  For those of you who may wonder about how or why the above came to be and how a Canadian boy who grew up in Quebec and who is now living in Hong Kong could write about such things...I read Chinese and Japanese history as an Undergraduate student under a Harvard-trained Sinologist who himself had been trained by a giant in the field of Far Eastern Studies, Edwin O. Reischauer.  I claim no credit - I had a great teacher, and he had a great teacher.

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Gramham
redundant word(s) removed.

[AndyHull]

This little Ingersoll arrived in an almost indescribably filthy condition (and not running). It is far from perfect as the case has some corrosion and missing plating, but other than those slight age related blemishes, its looking and running not bad now.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by AndyHull

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 8/24/2022 at 3:27 AM, Gramham said:

Hello @AndyHull,

Thank you very much for the link and resource.

Very interesting history!  I had no idea...but it makes sense what they did - in the period of military emergency that has existed since the end of WWII in China - to mandate that timepieces nationwide share a homologous movement, thus eliminating the need for watch repair technicians to waste time mastering more than one.  Very pragmatic and very CCP.

Before the Communist Party came to power, China wasn't really timepiece oriented.  I dimly remember visiting the clock pavilion in the Forbidden City about 20 years ago.  It was filled with ornate clocks that foreign nations had given to the (then) ruling class in the hopes of currying favorable trade terms with them.  This would be gifts presented to the Empress Dowager, Cixi (1835 - 1908) and her string of chosen successors, which included the Last Emperor of China, Puyi (1906 - 1967).  One of their most sacred duties was to perform planting and harvest oriented ceremonial rites in the Temple of Heaven, which was constructed in 1406 for that purpose.  When I visited it, you could just walk around the place.  There were no crowd and no security to speak of.



Back to the Hall of Clocks in the Forbidden City.  The Hall  was empty, dusty and not very well lit.  Some of the larger desk and mantle clocks were under simple Plexiglas barriers, others just scattered around on tables and there were also a few floor-standing models (I think).  If I remember right, there were little yellowed cards that said things like "Gift from Ambassador of France, 1892" with no further details. There was nobody around.  Nothing was running.  There were no tour guides or tape recorded tours back then.

Consequently, it was definitely a "meh" experience, but I wonder how things look (and how I'd react now that I've evolved into a "watch geek") after China has exploded economically - which usually creates the kind of prosperity that results in people having enough resources and free time to become clock and watch geeks.  I bet things have changed dramatically, both in terms of setup and interest level.  Looking at recent photos, it seems they've spruced up the place, but the clocks all look the same:

BTW - I believe that name for this "unified" movement is also likely to have been a very clever Chinese homonym, which is one of the hallmarks of a language of only 800 sounds and tons of consequent puns, play-on-words and humor...as well as several examples of well-intentioned portmanteau-style words like the Standard Chinese sounds for "Coca-Cola" and "America", for example.

The word for Comrade in Standard Chinese is, phonetically speaking, "Tong Je Men", or "Comrade Perrson", which can sometimes be reduced in common speech to the short form "Tong Je".  When I was living in Beijing, it was very common for people to hail each other in this way, especially if they did not know each other that well.  I remember that the older generation used the term habitually, especially if they were Communist Party members or had been participants in military action.

The verbalization for the name of this watch movement is "Tong Gee" which is phonetically extremely close to "Tong Je" and it would only take a tiny change in the vocalization of these two terms to slip verbally from one to the other.  I wonder if that's not an accident when you consider how important timekeeping is for a country and government that places such an emphasis on the military aspect of things, of which time management is a critical element.  For instance, did you know that China has only one time zone?  Everything in China runs according to Beijing time. 

NOTE:  For those of you who may wonder about how or why the above came to be and how a Canadian boy who grew up in Quebec and who is now living in Hong Kong could write about such things...I read Chinese and Japanese history as an Undergraduate student under a Harvard-trained Sinologist who himself had been trained by a giant in the field of Far Eastern Studies, Edwin O. Reischauer.  I claim no credit - I had a great teacher, and he had a great teacher.

 

Fascinating reading Graham

6 hours ago, AndyHull said:

This little Ingersoll arrived in an almost indescribably filthy condition (and not running). It is far from perfect as the case has some corrosion and missing plating, but other than those slight age related blemishes, its look and running not bad now.

 

Another cool looking watch Andy . I missed on ebay a similar looking Marvin a few weeks back. Not having much luck on there at the moment but i have got something coming in line with your 70s style. 

[AndyHull]

I hadn't encountered the movement or, so far as I know,  the maker of the Ingersoll Skeleton.

If you are interested, it is probably ca. 1975 and it runs on a 12 "' 2100 bph Sonceboz ES 95

The Sonceboz company still exists apparently. -> https://sonceboz.com/en/

"Originally founded as Ebauches SA, the company now sets innovative trends in the fields of mechatronic systems, stepper motors and linear actuators, which are usually tailored to customers' requirements ."

 

I've been wearing the Ingersoll/Sonceboz off and on today, and it is keeping fairly consistent time, at around -20 sec per day. I'll regulate it tomorrow and see how it goes. 

Its actually quite a small watch, more in keeping with the kind of style I like, and quite eye catching.
Somewhat more refined than the oversized Chinese "Winner" skeletons and similar.

I've never quite understood why the Chinese market isn't awash with well designed skeleton dress watches with decent build quality rather than those big pot metal frying pans.  After all the Chinese Standard skeleton movements are roughly the same size (11 "'' as I recall) as an 11 "' Chinese standard movement should easily fit in a refined dress style case.

Edited August 31, 2022 by AndyHull

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

I hadn't encountered the movement or, so far as I know,  the maker of the Ingersoll Skeleton.

If you are interested, it is probably ca. 1975 and it runs on a 12 "' 2100 bph Sonceboz ES 95

The Sonceboz company still exists apparently. -> https://sonceboz.com/en/

"Originally founded as Ebauches SA, the company now sets innovative trends in the fields of mechatronic systems, stepper motors and linear actuators, which are usually tailored to customers' requirements ."

 

I've been wearing the Ingersoll/Sonceboz off and on today, and it is keeping fairly consistent time, at around -20 sec per day. I'll regulate it tomorrow and see how it goes. 

Its actually quite a small watch, more in keeping with the kind of style I like, and quite eye catching.
Somewhat more refined than the oversized Chinese "Winner" skeletons and similar.

I've never quite understood why the Chinese market isn't awash with well designed skeleton dress watches with decent build quality rather than those big pot metal frying pans.  After all the Chinese Standard skeleton movements are roughly the same size (11 "'' as I recall) as this one and would easily fit in a refined dress style case.

 Probably still catering to that fashion phaze of big bold bling is better,  It seems to be hangjng around far too long. I blame Breitling for that. Its about time the general population of watch collectors developed some actual taste and went back to sensible classical watch styles and sizes that actually fit the wrist.  Big car compensation mentality ?.  Dont mind me I'm just having a shit time, so venting the spleen and letting off steam. 

[Gramham]

Hello Everyone,

This arrived in the mail today.  Seller stated:



So, onto the timegrapher it will go, to see what he means by "It run fast". 

I'll let you know results soon.

g.

----

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Gramham
Removal of merge

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Gramham said:

Hello Everyone,

This arrived in the mail today.  Seller stated:



So, onto the timegrapher it will go, to see what he means by "It run fast". 

I'll let you know results soon.

g.

----

 

Nice little watch. Very similar to the snk 809

[Gramham]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Nice little watch. Very similar to the snk 809

Apparently it is an SNZG15

Here's the Case/Movement:  7S36-03J0

Here's some info on it I found on the Information Superhighway:

http://www.watchsleuth.com/seiko5finder/search/?MOD=SNZG15

g.

----

Edited September 1, 2022 by Gramham
Updated URL

[Neverenoughwatches]

I dont really have anything 70s retro but I've been liking some of Andy's collection just latey. So i jumped in on some ebay bidding a few days ago and got this space age looking Timex. It needs a little work, some minor scratches on the glass which will dress out easily and the stem comes completely out so i may need to do some parts searching but apart from that it is good condition. The case body is chunky and you can feel the weight of it on your arm, a bit like a Magnum .44. So i gotta ask myself one question " do i feel lucky " well actually yes i do punk because i really like it.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Midazolam]

My bid fpr watch of the day.

Look at that dial.  The whole dial glows in the dark.  You would think wow what a great technological thought.  But not well executed.  Look at the hands.  The hands are coated with the same color lume.

You cannot discern the hands from the face in the dark.    

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Midazolam said:

My bid fpr watch of the day.

Look at that dial.  The whole dial glows in the dark.  You would think wow what a great technological thought.  But not well executed.  Look at the hands.  The hands are coated with the same color lume.

You cannot discern the hands from the face in the dark.    

A well thought out idea then ? . Actually it would be very handy here in the Uk with energy costs skyrocketing.  Leave it in the sun all day, strap to my forehead by night and traverse my house with no lights on.  

[AndyHull]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:41 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

... and the stem comes completely out ...

Probably the screw is loose or the retaining bar is damaged. Both are easy fixes. If you need parts, complete replacement movements are fairly easy to come by.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

Probably the screw is loose or the retaining bar is damaged. Both are easy fixes. If you need parts, complete replacement movements are fairly easy to come by.

Thanks for that Andy. On closer inspection the end of the stem is broken Maybe not even the correct stem. I have a few Timexes to repair, I'm liking this one the most so it is next in line after a Unitas that i seem to be taking far too long over.

[AndyHull]

@JerseyMo might be your best bet for the correct stem.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

@JerseyMo might be your best bet for the correct stem.

Thanks Andy. I may ask our Timex guru if i get stuck. 

[AndyHull]

Today I'm wearing the two hander, date, "French Ebauch" Montine with a blue green sunburst dial.

As I have mentioned before, I'm a sucker for a well executed blue dial, and this one really hits the spot.

The camera doesn't really do the dial justice, as it  changes hue depending on the angle of the light.

Someone had been fiddling with its Cupillard 233-66 (FE 233-66) heart to try to regulate it, so there was a little bit of delicate correction of the hairspring necessary to get it running reliably, but now it is swinging along nicely once more.  As you can see, it was also more than a little "crusty" when it arrived.

My guess from the styling is possibly mid to late seventies, although ranft suggests the Cupillard 233-60 family started life in the 1960s.

This is yet another 404 club member, with a price tag just a little over half of the club entry requirements.

It still needs a crystal replacement, as the one that it came with has a small crack in it, but I'll do that once I've worn it for a couple of days and I'm happy with its performance, and once I have a little more time to dig through my crystal stash to find something suitable, or order one.

I paired it with a soft Italian leather strap with a similar blue green styling.

Edited October 15, 2022 by AndyHull

[VWatchie]

11 hours ago, AndyHull said:

As I have mentioned before, I'm a sucker for a well executed blue dial, and this one really hits the spot.

Beautiful! And, it reminds me a lot of my Enicar Star Jewels Ocean Pearl from the 1970s.

[AndyHull]

That Enicar is a cracker. I've just had a quick browse through the "Show us your blue dial watches" thread again.

I'll need to add a couple of my recent watches, including the Limit  - Tissot 2030 quartz, and the Montine there at some stage.

 

[VWatchie]

2 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

I've just had a quick browse through the "Show us your blue dial watches" thread again.

Wasn't aware we had a thread like that. Lots of blue candy. Guess I'll have to add my Enicar to it.

[AndyHull]

Watch of today is a "bonus" Pulsar Subdial Day Date (V336 6090 R0) from 1988, enjoying a seat in front of the fire.
Bonus in the sense that it was part of a job lot, but not the main prize in that job lot.

Edited October 19, 2022 by AndyHull

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Watch of today is a "bonus" Pulsar Subdial Day Date (V336 6090 R0) from 1988, enjoying a seat in front of the fire.
Bonus in the sense that it was part of a job lot, but not the main prize in that job lot.

I know exactly what you mean Andy  " oh whats this i dont remember seeing this in the seller's photos and i quite like  ".

[grsnovi]

New macro focus rail. 18 images focus-merged. Didn't think about the fact that the second sweep and minute hand would move during the 18 separate exposures (so a quick edit to replace the whole second hand dial).