orient 46941 regulating

[nickpeh]

Hi, 

I tried to regulate the movement from orient 46941, it seems how slow i tried to adjust the reading still the same and time shown average 3 mins faster in just few minutes. Is it the problem lies on the beat error ? By using this software, beat error showed zero, so I eliminate the idea of that...any advice from u guys?

[matabog]

I'm thinking you already checked for HS touching itself or overbanking. Then There must be a problem with the HS (it being too short).

 

Was it running ok before?

[nickpeh]

running was fine before adjustment, after tht became like this..

[matabog]

pictures, macro ones, please

[nickpeh]

I don't have a macro lens to take pic , best I can do just used magnifying glass to snap one..usually beat error to be adjust first before the beat adjustment?

[Cad101]

looks like your hairspring Isn't centered correctly its all bunched over to one side. Can you remove the balance cock flip it over and take another pic from underneath.

[matabog]

I think the js didn't get inbetween the regulator pins

[clockboy]

You need to sort the hairspring first.

[nickpeh]

I am kinda new to watch disassemble, in this pic config will I able to remove the balance bridge assy ? I tried to remove but seems something not releasing from lower area , I am afraid to pull due to the hairspring. Do I need to remove any parts frm dial side to release this balance bridge?

[matabog]

Try wigle it a bit. rotate it a bit. watch Mark's video's.

[nickpeh]

Finally get the hairspring assy out and cleaned , reinstalled and put it on a time grapher , got this result with ++++ for rate loss or gain per day, anyone knew how to interprete this? 

 

[clockboy]

It so far out of regulation the timagrapher can not give a reading.  Move regulating arm a large amount.

[nickpeh]

After several hours of regulating , seems cant get the gained rate lowered...wondering what could be the issue.

 

[Marc]

High rate / low amplitude suggests that the h/s coils are fouling up on something.

You said that you have cleaned the h/s; when you reinstalled the balance did the h/s coils sit nice and concentric or were they still bunched up as in your earlier photo?

How did you clean the h/s?

Is the h/s sitting parallel to the balance with proper clearance to the balance arms and the cock?

Have you tried demagnetising it?

[clockboy]

53 minutes ago, nickpeh said:

After several hours of regulating , seems cant get the gained rate lowered...wondering what could be the issue.

 

Something is fowling the hairspring at a guess. Your original post showed a good amplitude and the beat was within tolerance so something has gone wrong since your adjustments.

[nickpeh]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

High rate / low amplitude suggests that the h/s coils are fouling up on something.

You said that you have cleaned the h/s; when you reinstalled the balance did the h/s coils sit nice and concentric or were they still bunched up as in your earlier photo?

How did you clean the h/s?

Is the h/s sitting parallel to the balance with proper clearance to the balance arms and the cock?

Have you tried demagnetising it?

Is there an easier way to demagnetise?  I soaked in kerosene and leaving it to dry , repositioned it and anchored down.

[canthus]

Kerosene is oily and though looking dry may have left a very thin oily surface which may be causing the hairspring coils to stick.  Clean with a proprietary h/s cleaner or lighter fuel (sometimes called naphtha).

[clockboy]

Absolutely the wrong solution to clean a hairspring with. Kerosene is also known as Parfin which is a very thin OIL or perhaps oil based. 

Re-clean by a  soak in lighter fuel,one dip, or any de-greaser.

[canthus]

Clockboy is right.  Raw kerosine is distilled from crude oil can also contain a lot of sulphur and other undesirables so is not suited for cleaning any parts of a watch unless very very dirty with old caked oil (then need to ensure you clean off all the kerosine).  It can though be used as a penetrating oil to ease tight fitted parts.  Rather than use raw kerosine use BBQ lighter liquid fuel as this is basically de-odorised, de-sulphurised and cleaned up kerosine.

Edited December 23, 2016 by canthus
fact

[nickpeh]

I did degreased it after soaking in kerosene using solvent, but after detailed inspection, realized hairspring end was slight bent causing the balance wheel unable to stay center. I will get new one to replace.

orient 46941 movement seems no banking pins, so now is it align the balance wheel impulse pin between pallet fork?

[nickpeh]

This is the hairspring removed frm the balance wheel, kinked at the collet...kinda hard to get back to roundness.

[rodabod]

That does not look terrible. Do you have fine tweezers like Dumont 5?

[Cad101]

That could be straightened out if you have the right tweezers as @rodabod says you'll need a steady hand and patience tho it looks a little out of shape at the stud end too.

[nickpeh]

sad to say that I dun have those fine tweezer.