2824 automatic mechanism screws

[AP1875]

Whoever put this movement together must have had a big bowl of porridge in the morning as I can't get the auto mechanism screws out. I've already damaged one blade (Bergeon driver).

I don't want to damage my blades further even if they're replaceable and I certainly don't want to chew the screw up..

Any ideas how to approach it?

Thanks

[AP1875]

[AP1875]

These are the drivers I have. They seem really soft, maybe I'm just not used to working with these tools though and I'm comparing it to a normal screwdriver.

[vinn3]

you can reshape the screw drivers with a hone stone,  vinn

[matabog]

that is one nice set of screwdrivers!

my advice: keep calm and tackle the screws in a controlled manner 

 

sharpen the blade If necessary 

 

[AP1875]

I got a nice bonus at work so I thought I'd get a decent set that would last me forever. However I've 'ruined' two blades today [emoji849][emoji22]

I've walked away from it now. I'll go back to it after a break. I must be missing something here....

The driver is the right size for the screw, it completely fills the head without overlapping but as I turn it applying a little downwards force as well it just doesn't grip. I don't know if it's sitting deep enough into the screw.

It's almost as if the screw is harder than the driver so the driver ends up damaged!

[matabog]

try sharpen them a bit.

 so the blade will go deeper in the screw slot

[jdm]

I remember someone already complaining about the Bergeon drivers being too soft.
I would be careful in sharpening the the blade, because you want the surface contact to be as much perpendicular as possible otherwise it will tend to slip. Also the screws you're working on seem to have a domed head, which doesn't help. I suggest you try a different driver, even if a cheap one, and press down as strong as you can while turning.

[AP1875]

I remember someone already complaining about the Bergeon drivers being too soft.

I would be careful in sharpening the the blade, because you want the surface contact to be as much perpendicular as possible otherwise it will tend to slip. Also the screws you're working on seem to have a domed head, which doesn't help. I suggest you try a different driver, even if a cheap one, and press down as strong as you can while turning.

Yes it's rather disappointing really, I bought these drivers to last me a lifetime but the quality for the price seems to be off. I know I'm new to servicing a movement, but I'm not new to the material side of things, I've been an engineer for over a decade and I'm used to finding these sort of problems. Only difference here is I need specialist tools to remove a screw and it's extremely delicate.

I think I'll get a stone so I can remove the damage and burrs on the end of the driver, hopefully without changing the shape. They should be good to go out of the box! Maybe I should have done more research, I was under the impression that they were the leaders in the market when it came to quality...

[jdm]

Bergeon sells two or three types of divers and is not reputed as the absolute best. It also depends on which screw are you working, eg Japanese screws are slightly different, having a wider slot. Don't be afraid to try so called cheap tool, you might be surprised. It's your brain and and hands that do the work not the logo on the tool.

Edited August 31, 2016 by jdm

[AP1875]

Everything I read before buying my tools said to buy quality equipment or you'll just end up buying twice.

I guess if I'm using their screwdrivers correctly, I shouldn't have to worry about them to breaking apart.

[jdm]

9 minutes ago, AP1875 said:

Everything I read before buying my tools said to buy quality equipment or you'll just end up buying twice.

I guess if I'm using their screwdrivers correctly, I shouldn't have to worry about them to breaking apart.

You will find a lot or surprise in this hobby  My drivers are cheap and worked infallibly so far. Try out things yourself and compare. Some people have a fetish for tools... but let's not digress.

Edited August 31, 2016 by jdm

[AP1875]

Ha ha I know what you mean. I'm going to use a 50p Chinese driver off eBay to resolve this aren't I [emoji24][emoji24]

[rogart63]

The Antimagnetic blades are the softest blades from Bergeon. Try stainless steel or harden steel blades. Then there will be no trouble? 

I think the softer blades destroy as much as a harder blade. Hardened blades for the small ones and stainless steel for the bigger drivers? 

Edited August 31, 2016 by rogart63

[SSTEEL]

5 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

The Antimagnetic blades are the softest blades from Bergeon. Try stainless steel or harden steel blades. Then there will be no trouble? 

I think the softer blades destroy as much as a harder blade. Hardened blades for the small ones and stainless steel for the bigger drivers? 

This ^^^

 

OP > Which screwdriver size you using for those black auto wind bridge screws?

[Cad101]

Every driver bit will bend or break no matter who its made by using the wrong driver in the slot too much clearance on the slot walls will result in using only the 2 outside edges of the driver to make contact with the slot edge instead of the full length of the blade if you imagine how much of a bending moment this is putting on the 2 points of something as small as a driver just by you twisting it its mind blowing. A driver should be angled enough to hit the screw sides and have a flat bottom to sit in the slot bottom without wobble. I've spent hours re-sharpening my drivers to suit and have different drivers for swiss and jap movements its amazing how different the screw slots are.

[Cad101]

hope I didn't sound like I was preaching then it just something I've spent along time sorting out after many bent / broken tips and sheared screw heads.

[matabog]

I subscribe  -  one should have a blade (not a screwdriver) for every screw / a Set for every movement.

[clockboy]

The problem I have found when sharpening screwdrivers is most have the blade too thin (weak) or the blade bottoms out in the slot causing slips.  See link below which explains.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/sdriver/sdriver.html

However I have on order the horotech sharpener that gives the blades a T shaped head. Hope I have not wasted my money time will tell.

 

 

[matabog]

that must have stung!

 

I use the 2$ sharpener (the one with two wheels)

[rogart63]

8 minutes ago, matabog said:

that must have stung!

 

I use the 2$ sharpener (the one with two wheels)

That is a cheap sharpener that is at least as good as the more expensive Bergeon tool. You don't need to spend a fortune. But i would like to have that Horotec sharpener. 

[matabog]

don't get me wrong! If I had the money, I would buy the horotec sharpener!

[AP1875]

2 hours ago, rogart63 said:

The Antimagnetic blades are the softest blades from Bergeon. Try stainless steel or harden steel blades. Then there will be no trouble? 

I think the softer blades destroy as much as a harder blade. Hardened blades for the small ones and stainless steel for the bigger drivers? 

Hi rogart, thanks for the info.

I've found these on cousins, should be interchangeable with my drivers so i'll give them a go. 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/flat-hardened-bergeon-6899

[AP1875]

2 hours ago, Cad101 said:

hope I didn't sound like I was preaching then it just something I've spent along time sorting out after many bent / broken tips and sheared screw heads.

No you don't i'll take any advice you guys give me thanks for helping 

[AP1875]

2 hours ago, SSTEEL said:

This ^^^

 

OP > Which screwdriver size you using for those black auto wind bridge screws?

i'm not sure of the size, i will check though. It completely filled the width of the screw though without overhanging the edges, not sure what else i could do?