My Post Christmas Challenge (Picture Heavy 'cos I Knows You Like 'em)

[Marc]

OK, so me and Mrs H did Christmas day with the family, and then we did Boxing day with the family, and then we were granted a day off so got to relax, and for me that meant I had the chance to tackle a little project that I had acquired as part of a job lot from a long retired watchmaker that had been sitting around in a shed for about 35 years (the job lot, not the watchmaker).

 

 

Pocket watches are not usually my thing although I do own and use a couple.

Orphaned pocket watch movements are even less my thing; but this little baby was in such a state that I couldn't resist the challenge.

 

 

I don't think I have ever attempted to resurrect anything in quite such a sorry state as this before but it wasn't all bad. The balance was free and with sufficiently little end shake to hint that the pivots were not broken.

However, the accumulation of dirt and dried grease obscured just about everything else.

The inner coils of the hair spring also looked to be completely filled in with rust/gunk.

 

 

With the balance cock and balance removed things got a little more interesting.

Underneath the grime is a rather nice English Lever escapement with cap jewels on both the pallet and escape wheel pivots. A good sign, but I need to let down any power in the mainspring before I go any further, which means flipping it over and removing the dial as the keyless works are dial side.

 

 

Not quite so bad under here as the dial has kept the worst of the dirt away. You can see too that both ends of the pallet and escape wheel pivots are capped, and the click spring is a proper cut steel affair, not wire. There is worrying evidence of rust on the steel work though.

 

 

With the power let down the pallet and escape wheel cock is removed and you can now see the English Lever escapement in all its (rather grubby) glory.

 

 

What a mess, but through the gunge there are just little hints of quality watchmaking peeping through; the thickness of the 3/4 top plate, and the cut and form of the teeth on the wheels.

 

 

The top plate comes off taking the entire train and barrel with it as the pivots are seized in their bearings. The main plate is a mess.

 

 

The under side of the top plate with the train still in place. The barrel has vacated its bearing revealing rust.

 

 

Not a good sign but it could be worse.

 

 

The train now removed from the top plate and dropped back into the main plate for a reference shot.

 

 

The set lever and stem retaining bridge do not look healthy. Again though the set lever spring is cut steel, not wire.

 

 

Oh yuk!!!

 

 

The main plate now stripped.

 

 

The barrel lid, with another nice touch; Geneva stop work, designed to only allow the central portion of the springs torque curve to be utilised thus reducing isochronism.

 

 

Main plate, top plate, and escapement cock ready for cleaning.

 

 

Ok, so whilst I was stripping all of this down, the hair spring, removed from the balance has been sitting in some Cola.

 

 

The result is that the rust has softened and with a little careful tweezer work with a pair of Dumont #5's, most of it has been dislodged.

The terminal curve of the Breguet over coil is badly out of shape due to a mishap when trying to unpin it from the rusted steel stud. I'll sort that out later. For now it's back into the pop to see if I can get those coils a little cleaner.

 

 

Everything cleaned and ready for reassembly.

 

I have a couple of spare jars for my cleaning machine and when I renew the cleaning solutions, the old stuff is kept in the spare jars. Any really heavily soiled movements get a "pre-wash" in the old chemistry so as to prolong the life of the new.

 

With this watch everything was washed in the old gear and then very carefully gone over with peg wood, a G/F scratch brush, and tooth paste on a cotton bud in order to remove all of the staining that the bath didn't touch. All the jewels, bearings, and pinion leaves were also pegged out. Then it all went for another cycle through the old stuff before going through a normal cycle through the fresh chemistry.

 

 

Main plate dial side prior to reassembly.

 

 

And train side. Scrubbed up quite well I think.

 

 

Stem, winding pinion, clutch, and stem retaining bridge reinstalled.

 

 

Set lever and spring back in place.

I haven't removed all of the rust pitting from the stem bridge and the set lever as it was too deep and to take it out would alter the shape too much, but it has been stabilised.

 

 

The reassembled barrel and Geneva Stop work. I have reused the old main spring for now but made a note of its dimensions in case I choose to replace it.

 

 

Another (gratuitous) shot of the Stop work as I just love it :-)

 

 

Barrel and train back in place and things are starting to look fairly healthy.

 

 

The top plate goes on.

 

 

Quite a difference compared to the strip down shot from the same angle.

 

 

The keyless works back in place dial side.

 

 

And the balance, with reshaped and re-pinned hair spring goes back into place.

 

 

After about half a dozen attempts to adjust the beat, removing the balance from the cock and turning the hair spring collet each time, and she comes to life!!

 

 

Everything back in place dial side.

 

 

And the cleaned up dial goes back on, complete with (broken) hands.

 

 

And if you ignore the rate error for now (I need to re-pin the hair spring a little shorter), it's actually not a bad performance.

 

As I said at the outset this was a challenge for challenge sake. I really enjoyed doing it and have learned a little bit about quality English watchmaking from the days when we were really rather good at it. I have absolutely no idea what to do with it now though although I want to try and find a bit more about it.

Here is what I know;

 

The name on the dial is T Donkin. There was a T Donkin watchmaker in Scarborough but I have no dates (yet) I'm guessing somewhere between about 1890 and 1910.

It is a 19 ligne, 19 jewel English Lever escapement movement with capped balance, pallet, and escape wheel pivots (diamond on at least the balance top pivot).

It has a screwed, split bi-metalic compensating balance, Breguet over coil hair spring, and Geneva Stop work on the barrel, and a 16200 train. A technical spec that suggests that it was of a reasonably high grade for its day.

 

I still have a couple of issues to address though, the most problematic of which is that it has a slightly bent balance staff pivot. I decided not to tackle this on this occasion as the risk of breaking it whilst trying to straighten it was too great and I desperately wanted to see it running, but I may have a go in the future.

I will re-pin the hair spring at the same time to get the rate up to where I can regulate it properly; it is currently about 25 minutes a day slow which is way beyond the range of the regulator. 

I also need to re-attach one of the dial feet and source some new hands.

Then of course there is the question of recasing it.

 

If you have made it this far then thank you for indulging me :-) I hope you have enjoyed it.

If anyone can shed any more light on this little old lady I would be very grateful.

 

 

 

[GeorgeClarkson]

Nice walkthrough! Really enjoyed it;)

[bobm12]

Amazing results Marc! My hat off to you! I learned a lot about cleaning optimization! I will have to use your system: two extra jars of the -- saved -- old fluids as a prep. I do have a question,

 

How do you combat the rust? Maybe you can give some pointers of the whole process/care you take?...and cola? what parts are not to be "treated" or how different? Much appreciated!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

PS. Sorry about not being able to provide any information about this beautiful watch. I did a summary search but no luck and -- with all due respect to the splendid watchmaker -- the only Donkin in these parts (USA) only made doughnuts! :) I will keep trying since this is really amazing!

[Geo]

I'm very very impressed as usual Marc, both with the end result and the post in general. I just love seeing what most folk would put in the bin, brought back to life. :)

[rogart63]

I am speechless . What a fantastic transfomation .

[Michael]

Thank you Marc for a fantastic post and pictures. It was like a late Christmas present reading your clean and repair story, amazing work. Some lovely parts on that watch

[Marc]

Thanks for all the comments gents. I get a huge amount of pleasure out of this sort of challenge any way, but it's great to be able to share the adventure on this forum.

 

Bob, cola contains phosphoric acid which is a very good rust treatment. It converts the iron oxides into iron phosphates which are much more stable, so for something like a hair spring, which you simply can't clean back to the bare metal with an abrasive, it seems a good way to deal with surface rust. The phosphates also form a film on the surface of the metal which helps to prevent further rust developing. Tea can also be used to good effect as the tannic acid in it has a similar reaction with rust.

As for the staining on the plates, that's where the toothpaste came in. Toothpaste contains a mild abrasive agent which is just aggressive enough to deal with the rust staining without polishing the surface of the plate too much. You do still need to be careful not to over do it though as you don't want plate with uneven levels of polish to them so the trick is to do as little as you can get away with in those areas which need the more aggressive cleaning, and the give the whole plate a gentle polish to blend all the different areas in together.

The staining was removed from the wheels using a glass fibre scratch brush. I have a Boley screw polishing jig which is a great help with this. With the wheel arbor held in a split collet the wheel can be rotated whilst the G/F brush is held static against the wheel, removing any deposits.

[bobm12]

Wow, Mark, thanks. That is a hell of a job! I will be using this system from now on. I get annoyed when, after cleaning, the different parts come out still stained. Sometimes it is just that, a simple "shading", but it is not good enough for me!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Don]

Awesome. Adjectives fail me. I love seeing old things brought back to life like this. Great post.

[GeorgeClarkson]

Awesome tips for cleaning rusty parts! I knew about the cola, but not about tea: I will give it a try, sine I often drink it and don't buy much cola... Also the toothpaste trick sounds promising: I will certainly give it a try

[klinej54]

I'm humbled, impressed and inspired.  Thanks for the pictures and tips.  What would you say you have in hours worked with this project?

 

jk

[Marc]

I'm humbled, impressed and inspired.  Thanks for the pictures and tips.  What would you say you have in hours worked with this project?

 

jk

 

 

JK, I think it was probably about 4.5 to 5 hours of actual bench time.

 

It's difficult to be certain because of the amount of time spent taking pictures, making notes, and waiting for the cleaning machine (half an hour in the wash, 10 mins in the first rinse, 5 mins in the second rinse, and 5 mins in the drier), but if I work it out and take out the camera time it took about 45 minutes to strip down and assess each part, 45 minutes to reassemble checking end and side shakes on all the wheels, lubricating and checking that everything ran smoothly.

Cleaning and reshaping the hair spring took about 45 minutes as well, and half an hour to adjust the beat error.

Then in between all that probably 2 to 2.5 hours of cleaning, polishing, buffing, stain removal, and pegging out.

 

I just remembered, I did have to make a new taper pin for pinning the hair spring, and that took me about another half an hour.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Marc

[digginstony]

Wow! What a wonderful job you've done. A movement anyone should be proud to own. Had no idea about the toothpaste. Many grateful thanks for the tip.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[dadistic]

Thanks for taking the time to document your work. It is inspiring!

[stroppy]

What was that old ad we had here in Australia...oh, now I remember...

 

"Things go better with Coke"

 

Well it proved to be just the ticket in this case!

 

I found this whole thread to be fascinating!  To take something that looked as if it had rusted solid years ago and to get it back into working order is just brilliant and I enjoyed every photo.  Marc...you are a genius!

[frenchie]

This is quite impressive !!! Thank you for sharing and for all the pictures. Quite a nice result.

[TimFitz]

I have just spent an hour reading & viewing your post. It was the best hour I have spent at the computer in an age. Thanks for your great step-by-step, truly inspiring.

[Marc]

Thanks for the kind words Tim.

This was a fun project to do and I'm very glad to have been able to share it.

[matabog]

how do you make a tapered pin for the students, or any, for that matter?

[Marc]

Hi Mat,

The easiest way to make a taper pin is to use a filing block.

Take a block of hard wood, about 5cm tall, 2cm wide, and 1cm thick. The dimensions are not critical and should be adapted to suit but it needs to fit into your bench vice but still be big enough to support the work, which is all it is for. File or cut a "V" notch as shown below (please excuse my amateur attempts at CAD).

Clamp the filing block into you bench vice.

I started with a piece of 2mm brass rod but use whatever stock you have available, it needs to be long enough to hold properly. If it is only short you could hold it in a pin vice. Lay it into the V notch in the filing block at whatever angle you want for the taper on your pin, and file horizontally whilst at the same time rotating the rod around it axis to form the taper.

I started with a file to get the basic shape and then moved to 400 grit paper on a lollipop stick to get more control and a better finish.

periodically try it in the hole that it is intended for to make sure that it is the right size and taper and then when it is right just cut it to length.

I suppose you could use a lathe if you really wanted to, spinning the stock in a collet whilst filing the taper but this is so quick once you have a V block. Alternatively you can of course buy taper pins very cheaply.