My Grandfathers Watch

[LeCorbusier]

I am gearing up to service and clean my Grandfather's watch ... it was left to me in the late 1970s after he died and has been in a drawer pretty much ever since.

I don't know the date (the movement is a P 320) it has a shock setting so I assume 1950s/60s?.

I have just removed the expanding metal strap (pictured next to it) which interestingly is Excalibur and is marked 'Patent Pending'. I had to gently open up the end brackets as to my surprise the watch doesn't have spring bars but rather the bars are of a piece with the case? The case appears to be 9ct gold.

Was this common back in the day? What sort of strap options do you have with this sort of case? I find it hard to believe that the excalibur strap would have been original to the watch?

Any thoughts?

Edited March 7, 2022 by LeCorbusier
watch movement added

[WatchMaker]

What a coincidence. I have only recently serviced an Avia watch pretty much identical to this! 

This too had fixed bars on a 9ct case. It is hallmarked on the inside of the case if you want to pinpoint a year. The one I dealt with was dated to 1959 (but had a FHF movement).

Owner has had the watch since new and it has always had a strap; dark brown.

Search for open ended strap if you want to follow that route.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by WatchMaker

[anilv]

I would fit a leather strap as a metal one would eat into the gold. There are leather straps designed for non removable springbars which have metal hidden in the leather at the ends which you fold over the spring bars. There are also some with some metal prongs that you fold over to retain the folded leather piece. The choice is limited compared to normal straps but at least they are available!

Lovely watch and all the more valuable because of the family history!

Anilv

[oldhippy]

Those Excalibur expanding bracelets are very good because it is so easy to remove links or add. As some one has already said open ended lather strap normally size would be 18mm some are 16 or even 20 the most popular is 18mm.

This tells you how to go about fitting one.

https://www.watchbattery.co.uk/Open-End-Watch-Strap.shtml

[LeCorbusier]

Thanks for the answers...definitely want to go the leather route. The lug width is 17mm so 16mm is probably the way to go.

[LeCorbusier]

13 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

What a coincidence. I have only recently serviced an Avia watch pretty much identical to this! 

This too had fixed bars on a 9ct case. It is hallmarked on the inside of the case if you want to pinpoint a year. The one I dealt with was dated to 1959 (but had a FHF movement).

Owner has had the watch since new and it has always had a strap; dark brown.

Search for open ended strap if you want to follow that route.

 

Thats fascinating. I have searched for a while now and not come across a match before. Interesting its a different movement?

[WatchMaker]

Hi again @LeCorbusier

Avia seems to have been a popular make in the 50s/60s. Do a google Images search on avia watch for instance. Actually more specifically for your watch do an Images search for avia de luxe! 

There were numerous watch companies before the 'quartz crisis' of the 1970s put a lot of them out of business. Such companies bought in movements from movement manufacturers; presumably whatever manufacturer gave them a competitive deal for any next planned batch of watches at the time. It's therefore quite typical to see movements from different manufactures in watches from the same watch company.

[Nucejoe]

 Many brands used Peseux movements, they are easy to work on and  mostly outlasted the case, real good pinion leaves specially. 

Dr ranfft lists the family Peseux 320 belongs to, which should help in case your watch needs a new part. 

 

[LeCorbusier]

Thanks. Interestingly I recently bought a 'non-working' Avia 10006 with a Peseux 320, serviced and cleaned it and managed to get it running again ... so fortuitously I have already had a practice. I had to source a new winding stem - but that was relatively easy. It has to my eye cleaned up very nicely and keeps remarkably good time (5-6 secs a day). Its not shock protected so presumably a 50s watch?

I'm very new to all of this, but Avia's seem to be very good value for money to me as the movements seem good quality workhorses? I got my 10006 for £12.50 and seem to have ended up with a very nice watch. To my mind way undervalued for the quality of engineering involved! I am waiting for a new Crystal and strap ... might post a before and after in due course.

[Nucejoe]

47 minutes ago, LeCorbusier said:

 To my mind way undervalued for the quality of engineering involved! I am waiting for a new Crystal and strap ... might post a before and after in due course.

 I agree, these were/ are good workhorse and undervalued as you say. I think some Famous brands did make high grade Peseux movements.

 This crystal looks undamaged you can polish it, check this vid.

Saves you a few bucks.

[LeCorbusier]

7 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 This crystal looks undamaged you can polish it, check this vid.

 

The Crystal on my Grandfathers watch is I believe just slightly scratched - the one on the 10006 has a crack in it. Thanks for the link. 

[StuartBaker104]

17mm open end straps are uncommon but they are out there. I have bought a few straps from this site

https://www.watch-band-center.com/watchstrap-p28094h175s760-Watch-strap-Rockhamp.html

I’m sure I’ve seen 17mm NATO straps somewhere too, but can’t find them right now.

17mm one piece leather straps are available here…

https://www.steveostraps.com/straps-2/nato-straps

[LeCorbusier]

I need some advice on a cannon pinion. I am trying to refit on an Avia I have cleaned and adjusted. The pinion won't click down into place. If I push it on with the tweezers it meshes with the minute wheel but when I turn the hands it moves a little and then rides up over the minute wheel and stops turning. If I push down more firmly it becomes stiff ... stops the balance initially when I turn the hands, then loosens and climbs the minute wheel again. It doesn't appear to be sitting down properly at the base.

it is a Peseux 7040 movement

Tim

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by LeCorbusier

[watchweasol]

Hi Can you post a close up of the post/center wheel and the cannon pinion. From what you describe its not seating properly.  When you removed it during the dismantling proceedure was it easy to remove or hard.

[LeCorbusier]

I used a puller and it came off fine, unfortunately I didn't check to see if it was loose. Will post a picture when I can get back to the work bench.

[LeCorbusier]

[LeCorbusier]

There appear to be two canon pinions available for this movement - 2.15mm and 2.40mm - I vaguely wondered if it was the wrong one? - how would I tell?

Edited March 25, 2022 by LeCorbusier

[watchweasol]

Hi  The canon pinion looks to have the dint in the side which tightens the pinion so why it should be over tight if its the origional.  as far as diferences go I take it refers to the height. The only wat to tell is to measure the height of the one you have with a vernier or Micrometer.  Did the watch work and hand set before the clean etc.    From the picture of the canon pinion on the post it has not seated correcty, there is usualy a decernable click as it is pushed down. do not over force the canon when fitting.

[LeCorbusier]

It won't seat if I press down and there is no click. I pressed quite hard and effectively it tightened such that when the winding stem engaged it was stiff and initially stopped the balance ... then immediately loosened and climbed the minute wheel .... I didn't want to push hard again!

It measures 2.15 ... so I wonder if it is too short for the centre wheel. I have a 2.40 on order so we will see.

Edited March 26, 2022 by LeCorbusier

[watchweasol]

Ok, did the watch work ok before being cleaned etc, were you abe to set the hands before.   Its always a good idea to check all functions of a watch before working on it t even if its stopped ,  check the balance oscillation and its pivots , .the hand set and keyless work,   that  way you know if it develops a fault after working on it you can check and say its one you have introduced .  Will be interested to know what result you get with the new canon pinion,  One can always broach the original but its a very delicate operation in not taking too much metal out of it and getting the hand drive correct.

[LeCorbusier]

The watch was fully wound but didn't run .... the hairspring was in a poor state and it took a bit of work getting it back true again. Unfortunately I didn't fully test the hands (silly mistake!) but I did align them to ease removal .... so I didn't anticipate there being a problem ..... but the canon pinion definitely doesn't seat and all I have done is remove it, clean it in horosolve and replace.

The pinion has a closed end, so how would you broach it?

Edited March 26, 2022 by LeCorbusier

[watchweasol]

Hi  you could use a small drill bit in a pin vice, all you are doing is to reduce the tension of the crimped area to allow fitting, its a job which takes care. Like one slight turn and try the fit and so on a little at a time.

[LeCorbusier]

55 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

 all you are doing is to reduce the tension of the crimped area to allow fitting, 

Assuming the canon pinion is the correct one and it's no bottoming out on the pivot ... will report back once the new pinion arrives 

[LeCorbusier]

Ok,

So the new canon pinion arrived this morning and this one won't seat in the same way as the original. I can't see anything wrong with the centre wheel shaft in terms of condition. Does this suggest that the centre wheel might not be correct?

Very confused by this!

 

[nickelsilver]

The pivot of your center wheel where the cannon pinion fits looks totally wrong. It should have a distinct slope going to a shoulder along the pivot, this is where the dent in the cannon pinion fits. The slope is to make sure the cannon pinion tends to push itself down when setting the time, rather than ride up. The pic is a typical normal center pivot/ shaft. I'm 100% certain a Peseux would look like the pic.