Help identifyig a movement

[Ammar]

Hello,

I found a really cheap Rolex replica and I though it would be nice to practice on something other than Seikos and Orients, I did the usual cleaning oiling and everything went smoothly until the point where I came to put the otomatic bridge back and boy I have no any idea where things go I've never seen a winding bridge with so many gears, anyway I dicided to have a look on google but the damn thing has no markings on it nothing at all, I don't care about this watch I'm probably gonna throw it in a box and forget about it (I would hit it with an angle grinder but I don't have one) but I really want to get it back together so I can feel a little bit good about my self

[AndyHull]

Tricky, it looks like a Chinese construction, but there are so many small scale producers, and there are no obvious numbers or marks on it.

Not the typical Chinese Standard movement though, as they typically have the balance opposite the winder.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_standard_movement

 

[jdm]

27 minutes ago, Ammar said:

, I did the usual cleaning oiling and everything went smoothly until the point where I came to put the otomatic bridge back and boy I have no any idea where things go I've never seen a winding bridge with so many gears,

It's a normal reversing wheels device which should not present difficulties. I suggest you take many picture when taking things apart.

[Ammar]

3 minutes ago, jdm said:

It's a normal reversing wheels device which should not present difficulties. I suggest you take many picture when taking things apart.

I tried placing the wheels for like 30 minutes but to no avail, it is a hand wound as well so it can still run.

 I usually take alot of pictures but I don't know I guess I got lazy this time

[Ammar]

22 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Tricky, it looks like a Chinese construction, but there are so many small scale producers, and there are no obvious numbers or marks on it.

Not the typical Chinese Standard movement though, as they typically have the balance opposite the winder.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_standard_movement

 

Why would a peoducer not leave their mark though? Is it for legal reasons?

Wouldn't be good for them if they put some markings in case somebody wants to buy from them?

[jdm]

Just now, Ammar said:

I tried placing the wheels for like 30 minutes but to no avail,

Try again tomorrow and they will fit. It will help if you search online for an explanation of how a non-Seiko auto winding works. 

[jdm]

1 minute ago, jdm said:

Try again tomorrow and they will fit. It will help if you search online for an explanation of how a non-Seiko auto winding works. 

Quote

 

Why would a peoducer not leave their mark though? Is it for legal reasons?
Wouldn't be good for them if they put some markings in case somebody wants to buy from them?

 

They are Chinese, they don't want about their name be known but just to sell the product in the largest possible numbers. And even if you knew their name and address, no diagram or parts would e available..

[spectre6000]

Post up some pictures of the automatic assembly components. Figuring out mechanical puzzles like that is my jam!

[watchweasol]

Hi  Now there is an offer you cant refuse

[Ammar]

45 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Post up some pictures of the automatic assembly components. Figuring out mechanical puzzles like that is my jam!

I don't know if you can see the wheels properly this is the best I can do, have fun 

[HSL]

I'm not an expert on chinese movements but isn't this a standard ST6D Movement (ST6D-L) ? 
There might be some tech sheets out there, think it is aold at counsinsuk too, they usually keep some sheet available.

Edited July 18, 2020 by HSL

[Nucejoe]

Chinese aren't expert on Chinese watches either. 

[Ammar]

57 minutes ago, HSL said:

I'm not an expert on chinese movements but isn't this a standard ST6D Movement (ST6D-L) ? 
There might be some tech sheets out there, think it is aold at counsinsuk too, they usually keep some sheet available.

it is actually an ST6D movement but I couldn't find any sheets or manuals online the only useful thing that I've leaned is that it's actually an over-sized lady's movement and it's widely available for about 30$, I think I'll try one more time tomorrow and see what happens I'm pretty sure it's gonna end up flying out of  the window.

[jdm]

12 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Chinese aren't expert on Chinese watches either. 

True. Time ago I bought a Chinese "triple date" mov.t for a replacement. Actually I had to buy twice because the first time I failed to spot some small difference from the pictures. When I asked what factory made these or at least a clear designation I was told that these things don't apply to their domestic movement ?!?

[spectre6000]

7 hours ago, Ammar said:

I don't know if you can see the wheels properly this is the best I can do, have fun 

Well... The thing is, the wheels only go in one way. The jewels have different size holes, and for the most part not all wheels will fit in all the jewels. That'll narrow you down to a degree. Then there is the clearances on the automatic bridge. They're sized for particular wheels, and again, only one way. Then there's there are different sized teeth and leaves. Ditto. 

Numbering the gears from left to right 1-6, 1&2 look related. 1 probably fits inside 2. 3 goes adjacent the ratchet wheel as it's the only gear with teeth that would mesh. 2, 5, and 6 should all easily be placed by their positions on the automatic bridge. Start with whichever one meshes with the rotor gear (I'm guessing 6). The way it meshes with that gear will dictate which end is up. Then it looks like 5 is up next, ditto on the orientation. It's difficult to tell what's going on with 1, 3, and 4. 1 is especially interesting looking... It may have a hole through it and some kind of dog clutch? Reversing mechanism? Difficult to tell by the photo.... I'm having a hard time figuring out how 4 fits into the mechanism, but I'm sure with the movement in hand and everything else situated, it'll be obvious.

[Ammar]

On 7/19/2020 at 3:33 AM, spectre6000 said:

Well... The thing is, the wheels only go in one way. The jewels have different size holes, and for the most part not all wheels will fit in all the jewels. That'll narrow you down to a degree. Then there is the clearances on the automatic bridge. They're sized for particular wheels, and again, only one way. Then there's there are different sized teeth and leaves. Ditto. 

Numbering the gears from left to right 1-6, 1&2 look related. 1 probably fits inside 2. 3 goes adjacent the ratchet wheel as it's the only gear with teeth that would mesh. 2, 5, and 6 should all easily be placed by their positions on the automatic bridge. Start with whichever one meshes with the rotor gear (I'm guessing 6). The way it meshes with that gear will dictate which end is up. Then it looks like 5 is up next, ditto on the orientation. It's difficult to tell what's going on with 1, 3, and 4. 1 is especially interesting looking... It may have a hole through it and some kind of dog clutch? Reversing mechanism? Difficult to tell by the photo.... I'm having a hard time figuring out how 4 fits into the mechanism, but I'm sure with the movement in hand and everything else situated, it'll be obvious.

I spent 40 minutes yesterday fiddling with this thing and it just refuses to go back together and I decided to drop it, I'm so frustrated but there's nothing I can do