Raymond Weil Keyless Repair help and movement screw retainers.

[watchweasol]

Hi winding via the rotor weight and the stem are independent, The former working through a set of reduction gears mounted seperatly on the movment. This can usually removed as a unit being unscrewed from the plate. The latter utilises a train of gears a d a silding clutch on the stem, both operate on the ratchet wheel and wind the watch.  As the watch winds ok on the rotor the ratchet wheel and barrel must be ok, Therfore the next logical step is to remove the reduction gear plate to gain access to the barrel and the gear that you have outlined, probably find a broken tooth or a dry jammed gear( indicated).

[HSL]

Just a thought..
Both the automatic and the manual winding use the same ratchet wheel and crown wheel otherwise the mainspring would unwind.
So to be clear .. the gear you refer too is the crown wheel?

When winding with the stem it is directly driven by the winding pinion.

The mainspring is wound by the crownwheel transfering the motion to the ratchet wheel.
The ratchet wheel is directly connected to the barrel arbour.
 

To prevent the mainspring to unwind itself the crown wheel is equipped with a click. it has a small nobb that goes in to the gears in the 

crown wheel and locks it from running in more than one direction. The tension to the click is generated bu the clickspring.

When removing the nut on the crown wheel one have to remeber it is a left threaded one.

So when fault finding the winding one should keep this concept in mind.
If the watch is winding when the rotor is running then the whole chain just described must be ok.

On the other hand one must be sure it actually winds it.
I would check if it winds it with the rotor and if it do the fault must be in the god old keyless..

Edited April 3, 2020 by HSL

[MrUseless]

I think I can see what I have done wrong. I’ll strip the keyless and start again!

in the meantime I’ll look to order a new bearing and the other parts I need. In the manual I think I need part 43 the lugs or whatever they are called to seat the movement in the case and hold it in place. What are these called (table only goes up to 42) and where can I order.

for the bearing also where do I order and do I need any special tools? Bearing only has the slightest of play but will do meanwhile.

should probably get some lubricant and do this properly also.

[MrUseless]

Woohooo fixed and it winds. Thanks all.

Just need to find those lugs now somewhere online and I’m done, although I should probably replace the bearing it appears to have a tiny amount of play.

 

[MrUseless]

I’ve seen it called a key bolt - sorry for my crap terminology! I’m more used to working on classic cars!

7613226021778 Found that part number or 001656 but can’t find any from google searching.

[watchweasol]

There you go , a good job well done not useless at all.    Patience pays off great job

[MrUseless]

Any idea where I should buy the parts I need?

looks like I need 3 key bolts, a press and a bearing for my weight.

[HSL]

1 hour ago, MrUseless said:

Any idea where I should buy the parts I need?

looks like I need 3 key bolts, a press and a bearing for my weight.

Bolts are a little big to have in a mechanichal watch but some small screws are suitable
I don't know which screws you mean but as it was three i guess it is the ones in the retainment ring?

 

These ones are the same for the most ETA / Clones so you could grabb a bunch like these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-4-SCREW-AND-CLAMPS-FOR-ETA-2824-2-2834-2-2836-2-2892-MOVEMENT/162222154138?hash=item25c531a19a:g:h34AAOSwVXRdDJMx

Since this is a Selitta SW200-1 movement I can't say if a genuine bearing from ETA will fitt.
Mayme someone here has replaced one on this movement? If you live in Europe or have some time to wait you can get the lot from me just to try out. Im a bit curious about how you take the residues from the screws our from the ring.

[MrUseless]

It’s not those I have the two screws there for that I think is that the dial ring support?

 

i think it’s three of the number 43 in the picture below. They call it a key bolt. Basically it’s like a washer under the screw head that holds the movement in place inside the case. The washer slots inside a groove in the case so holds it in. 

[HSL]

The No43 Key bolt will not hold your movement into place.
If you look at your pictures you see the movement is mounted on a metal ring marked Metal - 2837, you first have to fix the movement onto that one with two screws, after that you can fasten it to the case with three clamps and screws, just like those in the link above.

The dial ring No42 is just a chim which lays loose and makes sure the dial ring goes free from the dial above it.

[MrUseless]

11 minutes ago, HSL said:

The No43 Key bolt will not hold your movement into place.
If you look at your pictures you see the movement is mounted on a metal ring marked Metal - 2837, you first have to fix the movement onto that one with two screws, after that you can fasten it to the case with three clamps and screws, just like those in the link above.

The dial ring No42 is just a chim which lays loose and makes sure the dial ring goes free from the dial above it.

Thanks that’s what I need the clamp at the bottom there. Any idea where I can get one? I’ve tried ebay and all sorts.

 

also how do you annotate like that it’s neater than my scribbles!

[HSL]

I think you can find the screws and clamps from the store in the link above , the best thing is if you have one of your original clamps left and meassured it, but yours look quite standard so it's just the lenght you got to know. The screws are pretty much standard with the same threads the only differens is the with of the screwhead , wider for the ring and the smaller to the clamp .. just so you get a feel of the assortement of clamps out there and why its good to meassure twice.

When I make quick annotations in the pictures I mostly use Corel Paint Shop Pro 2020.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by HSL

[Watchtime]

hats off to you for trying and sharing, you see where this forum leads you to...:) Case clamps and screws can be bought original or on the bay for a few bucks a box full whith several sizes.

 

[MrUseless]

No thanks to you all! I owe you some beers! I enjoy fixing things but like to done right so was extra cautious.
 

i would like to fix my bearing at some point can you suggest a good tool? I’ve looked around and found some options ranging from eyelet machines (which might come in handy when retrim my cars interior) to some hand held spring hammers similar to an automatic punch which I don’t like. I’d like a small bench hand press with a variety of stakes.

 

I may even fix one of my others watches which has been sat in a drawer for Years!