Stubborn Screw-In Back How To....maybe

[bobm12]

Here is a little walk through of how I, following Geo's and Micky's advise, was able to remove the stubborn back of 2 different watches, a Seiko Kinetics with exhibition back and an Orient Auto.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this moment, the backs have been immersed in 100% acetone. I have a feeling I shouldn't have used epoxy but after literarily destroying 2 compact, made in Switzerland, back openers and one set of pins from my brand new jaxa I was taking any chances. Notice the Automotive grade tools used to force the watches open. Worst case scenario, backs can be sourced! (The salesman said this epoxy was soluble in Acetone....).

 

Notice also that the exhibition back -- Seiko Kinetic -- needed a nut large enough to clear the crystal an hold on the outer metal ring.

 

In any case, we'll come back for a final view of the backs after the acetone works....if it does...

 

 

Cheers

 

Bob

 

 

[SSTEEL]

Well done, lets hope the acetone dissolves that epoxy resin, this is why I use superglue ;)

 

You did the right thing with the display back too, some people forget and the glass rotate in its gasket lol.

Edited December 29, 2014 by SSTEEL

[Geo]

Well done, lets hope the acetone dissolves that epoxy resin

My thoughts exactly. It will be interesting to know how long acetone takes to soften epoxy. :-/

[ro63rto]

Soak in acetone then aim a heatgun at it to soften.

Just be careful with the displayback one.

[bobm12]

Do you guys think an electrical soldering gun would do? It is an old high heat one...

 

As an interesting note, some of the epoxy remnants on the cases scraped off fine with a back opening knife, no marks left. The stuff I used is really tough, it is supposed to be sandable after it cures leaving a gray surface as you can see in the picture. I also said on the label that it is not supposed to be used in surfaces to be under water so if the acetone doesn't work, I'll see what water does...only problem is the metal may corrode if left too long. So far, the backs screw back on so if the nuts come off there shouldn't be any more complications to restore these watches. All parts seem to be OK and the coils checked good in the Kinetic.

Edited December 29, 2014 by bobm12

[ro63rto]

If no heat gun available some people swear by sticking the lot in a freezer for 24hrs then smacking the nut with a hammer.

[bobm12]

Thanks ro63rto, I'll save that option for last! :) This epoxy resist cold up to -40 celcius...My fridge my not make a dent on it. I remember I have a torch to make crème brulee, maybe I could use that one. The epoxy is also heat resistant to quite a high number...I think I chose the wrong glue?! :D

 

It is fun anyways!

Edited December 29, 2014 by bobm12

[ro63rto]

I think you used the glue for building skyscrapers there [emoji1]

[bobm12]

LOL!

[clockboy]

I read once somewhere on the net that the solution that removes supper glue also removes other glues !!!!!!

Don,t know if it is true or if it works but it seems to me if the freezing or heat does not work the above could be worth a punt

Edited December 29, 2014 by clockboy

[Geo]

Hi Bob, I've been doing a little investigation and it would appear that there is a solvent that will help you out.

"The other method is to immerse the encapsulated component in Methylene Chloride. This solvent is hard to obtain as it has been declared a carcinogen. The user must take all precautions to prevent contact with skin and not to inhale the vapours while using this product. Methylene Chloride will cause the encapsulant to swell and become soft for removal. Unfortunately, since printed circuit boards and many electronic components are also encapsulated with epoxy, they will also be damaged or destroyed by this solvent."

This is a component of a lot paint strippers, it might be worth trying.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Geo

[Blacklab]

I agree with SSTEEL only use superglue and acetone or the missus nail varnish remover (or your own if your that way inclined). It works a treat.

[bobm12]

Good point Geo, maybe paint stripper would do the trick although it is still too early to move on to another method. I'll wait till tonight and then report back. Considering the options, I'd rather get a new back for the watches since they are only project watches and messing with dangerous substances are not exactly my cup of tea so to speak.

 

My main objectives have been met already: Open the Orient watch for parts (if not salvageable) AND Open the Kinetic to tinker and explore aided by an ohm-meter. All thank you to you guys advise.

 

It would be great to be able to restore them back to "almost original looks/performance" but I don't like the looks/case of the Orient so the movement will most likely be migrated. The other one is a different issue: I like it but I'm studying it so it is a gamble.

 

I'm still interested in my glue selection and how to get rid of it. I'll try all the suggestions at my reach and report back.

[clockboy]

If this was my problem I would set up a test piece of metal NOT the watch back. Then you could be really aggressive & reckless without causing any damage.

Edited December 29, 2014 by clockboy

[autowind]

A handy tip for that extra stubborn back.   :bow:

[BlakeL]

What is wrong with the watches that caused them to seize up like that? Rust?

[Andyclient]

What is wrong with the watches that caused them to seize up like that? Rust?

I think generally it is a case of over tightening and the seal sticking when they start to deteriorate , they can go like tar when they start to break down

[bobm12]

I agree with Andy, also I believe the watches were at some point "exposed" to salt water and not rinsed properly, add to that sweat and overall disregard with possible storage and you have a recipe for disaster. Luckily, I didn't strip any thread and I'm just dealing with the glue. The movement inside is pretty well preserved. Notice the brown dust in one of the pictures. It came from the thread/inside of the watch.

[bobm12]

So at the end I figured I could wait a couple more days until the acetone penetrated all the way but being the restless and impatient guy I am, I chose a short cut....

 

 

I scratched all the epoxy from outside with a back opening knife and then I used a bezel tool to "pry" under the nut and once it grabbed the back of the watch firmly, I used the hammer.

 

One hit was enough to detach the nuts. The epoxy will come of either with more acetone or with the knife. I chose acetone since I'm in no hurry at this time. Caution should be had with the exhibition back since it can break...I believe I was lucky with it this time.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Lawson]

bobm12, on 30 Dec 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

I'm still interested in my glue selection and how to get rid of it. I'll try all the suggestions at my reach and report back.

 

Look no further Bob old chum, your old mate Lawson has discovered the solution :)

 

Attack Solvent

 

Now it looks like nasty stuff, and is probably banned in all 50 States :P  But theirs a chap on the fleabay selling this toxic brew.

 

Fleabay Item Number (as of today): 111410259732

Fleabay Store: wmclockmaker

 

I'd suggest a level 4 biohazard suit while applying it :huh:

[noirrac1j]

I've done this twice with 5 minute epoxy. I took a pencil-style welder that runs on butane and heated up the lug until it came off. Cleaned caseback with brasso.

 

JC

[bobm12]

Hi Lawson,

 

I got a local suppliers selling the stuff. I've been meaning to get some but never gave it the right importance until now! Thanks mate!

 

@Joe: Thanks joe, I was thinking about the epoxy but was afraid it was too "weak" to hold the torque! Now I know better.

[noirrac1j]

Hi Bob,

Oh Yeah. The epoxy will definitely hold. The problem will be getting the lug off! You'll need a pencil butane torch to heat it off, and it'll need to be cleaned with brasso and one of those no-scratch scrubbers, but it WILL work.

 

JC

 

 

 

 

[SSTEEL]

Got another stubborn case back, this one is well and truly stuck, the correct case back die would not budge it, so therefore, the nut job is in motion.

 

Untitled by Micky.!, on Flickr

Edited January 7, 2015 by SSTEEL

[Geo]

the nut job is in motion.

That's not a nice way to describe yourself! :-)

PS Your needing to set the date on your camera.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Geo