Amplitude jumps up and down

[Logixa]

So another question. One of my movements has an amplitude that keeps jumping up and down.  I've serviced and cleaned the watch 3 times now but still the problem exists. I tried 3 different new springs, a full barrel assembly, different types of greased but still it jumps and is very low.

It jumps between 190 and 250 amplitude within the same position while laying still on the timegrapher. 

The watch has been cleaned in an elma machine with elma wf pro and suprol pro. I used hp1300, 9010, 9415 and that blue grease on the movements on the parts as it should. Tried all barrel breaking greased like 8213, 8217, p125 but still the same problem.

What causes a problem like this?

[Nucejoe]

Dose the perioď of amplitude fluctuations correspond to a particulare wheel? for instance a bad tooth on escape wheel can cause such amplitudes drop & pick up, every round the tooth comes in contact with pallets.third wheel?

[Logixa]

8 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Dose the perioď of amplitude fluctuations correspond to a particulare wheel? for instance a bad tooth on escape wheel can cause such amplitudes drop & pick up, every round the tooth comes in contact with pallets.third wheel?

Good point, I'll go and check that.

[Watchtime]

Jump hour watch?////

[centerwheel]

I had a problem like this one and it was due to a bent pivot of one of the train wheels.

[oldhippy]

Have you demagnetized the whole movement?

[Logixa]

Well I tried demagnetizing it but it didnt make a change. I'll try to check the wheels while it's running under a microscope. Could it maybe be related to the balance?

[hpekala]

Try loosen the screws on the bridges, it can have an effect.


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[oldhippy]

Are you sure the h/spring is clear and clean. Its even, free in the regulator and not being fouled in any way. Pallets faces clean no rough marks, escape wheel isn’t worn all teeth good. If all good, then you need to start looking at the rest of the train, pivots, teeth and pivot holes.   

Just been reading your first post again. Are you sure you have the correct m/spring. How long does the movement work for before it plays up. You can work out which wheel to look at by that. 

[Logixa]

Actually the amplitude plays up immediatly. Im going to clean and check the balance, anchor and escape wheel now to see how it goes. The spring in the system should be the right one as the whole barrel assembly is new and made for this movement

[jdm]

2 minutes ago, Logixa said:

Actually the amplitude plays up immediatly. Im going to clean and check the balance, anchor and escape wheel now to see how it goes. The spring in the system should be the right one as the whole barrel assembly is new and made for this movement

And which mov't is that? Can you post some timegrapher pics?

[JohnR725]

Usually helpful if we have a model number of the watch and who manufactured it?

[oldhippy]

Actually the amplitude plays up immediately. Then the fault must be in the escapement. 

[Logixa]

So, I checked all the gears and even changed every part 1 by 1, even the mainplate got changed. Only thing that I couldn't change due to not having a reserve was the balance. So I assume the problem relies in the balance somewhere 

[AndyHull]

Sounds like a balance jewel, pivot or hairspring issue. My money would be on worn pivots.

[Nucejoe]

Have you checked the endshake?  What shock protection are you dealing with?  Check the behavior FU, FD and on the side, positions.

If endstones are domed, I would flip over the lower endstones, to compensate for worn pivot. 

Dirty, faulty impulse jewel causes drag which if on one side of fork horn, results in big beat error and amplitude fluctuation. 

Check the roller for sign of contact with fork horn.

Regards

[Nucejoe]

Unlock the shock spring to give the jewel a bit more freedom to move, this will affect oscillation if the pivot is bent.

[Logixa]

Thanks everybody for the answers! Unfortunately I havent had the time yet to investigate it further but I have contacted the owner to ask if its ok that the watch stays a bit longer with me.

I am not sure if I'm allowed to speak about this type of movements but.... its a replica (SH)3132 movement.

[jdm]

 

37 minutes ago, Logixa said:

I am not sure if I'm allowed to speak about this type of movements but.... its a replica (SH)3132 movement.

 

You are just talking about a mov't not pimping counterfeiting. But, these are pretty bad to start with, one should be happy as long they run at all.

[Logixa]

Just now, jdm said:

 

 

You are just talking about a mov't not pimping counterfeiting. But, these are pretty bad to start with, one should be happy as long they run at all.

true that.. I've serviced 3 of them so far and only 1 was running very good with 300-ish amplitude, 0.0ms BE and -5 to +7 deviation.

 

I've ordered a automatic oiler now because I got sick of applying the oil to the endstone, placing the thing back on top and inspecting it under the microscope only to find the oil spreaded out again to the sides... After approx, 12 times you seem to care less about the huge price of an automatic oiler haha.

I'll clean both jewels again and give them an epilame treatment, inspec the pivots of the balance and clean and inspect the whole escapement again.

[Logixa]

I'm also not sure which breaking grease would be better here. These counterfeits have no holes in the barrels for the spring to hook upon and they tend to have a stronger spring installed in them to "fix" that. If one changes the the spring with a new one, I would assume that P125 would be the best bet due to friction required to compensate their "fix" right?

[jdm]

1 minute ago, Logixa said:

I've ordered a automatic oiler now because I got sick of applying the oil to the endstone, placing the thing back on top and inspecting it under the microscope only to find the oil spreaded out again to the sides... After approx, 12 times you seem to care less about the huge price of an automatic oiler haha.

I'll clean both jewels again and give them an epilame treatment, inspec the pivots of the balance and clean and inspect the whole escapement again.

I don't believe that will make any difference. But, in doing that you will be learning anyway.
 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Logixa said:

contacted the owner to ask if its ok that the watch stays a bit longer with me.

In the beginning of this discussion you said one of your movements,  and here  you're indicating the movement belongs to a customer?

Helpful now we know what movement this is but that presents an interesting problem. Amusingly googling this movement specifically I was looking for anyone that actually has serviced one and timing machine results and anyone that's had one of these near a timing machine the results have been very disappointing. Apparently the identical clone to a real Rolex may have quality control issues.

 

 

 

[Logixa]

@JohnR725 haha true you got me on that! I was afraid mentioning anything related to replica's. And I call the watches here, my watches as they are in my hands. I'm not the owner but I'll call them my movements

and yes it's true that the quality of these movements is horrible.. the way I see them is that the quality is getting worse every month on them. The first one had was doing great.