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  1. Yes, I have. With some luck it is possible to use them on the upper. The main issue is that their arms are shorter but they catch. Not by much but for practice might be ok to complete the assembly. Just make sure to push (with a pegwood) the spring end, one with pivots, all the way towards the jewel setting. Btw, I got a set of genuine Incabloc settings for practice and had no such problems with the spring getting lost. So, on the positive note, the "flying" springs are most likely just an "Asian" phenomenon - they make their own Incabloc springs which are similar but differ enough to cause grief.
  2. I always remove the balance from the cock for cleaning IF the balance is not using Etachron system. With Etachron, such as 6497, I tried it once. Taking it out was easy, but pushing the stud back into the jaws of the stud holder during reassembly was tricky (and dangerous). I had to apply quite some force while praying that my pushing "tool" would not slip. The regulator pins needed to be spread out some to allow for the hairspring to drop through (easy), but then on reassembly they need to be closed back - again hoping for the best while working so close to the hairspring. I would not try to repeat this process every time I clean the movement.
  3. Does it mean that the balance with cock, but without hole and cap jewels, goes on the mainplate for the wash?
  4. Thanks! I am going to use this method now. That is keep the cap jewels on for the wash in the cleaning machine, then take the setting out, clean the jewels in One Dip, and lubricate the caps. The addition benefit is that this also calls for less of opening and closing of Incabloc springs, which occasionally have a propensity to fly away into the ether...
  5. For cleaning I like to have the balance assembly, with the spring settings, installed onto the main plate. Prior to cleaning I remove the cap jewels from both upper and lower settings and keep them in separate baskets, but is it really necessary since they will be anyway in the end dipped in One Dip solution? So, would it be acceptable to do the wash with the cap jewels in their settings, then, after wash, use One Dip for the balance assembly which would take care of the hairspring. Finally, take the settings out, separate the cap jewels from the hole jewels and put all through One Dip so that the jewel holes and cap jewels would be cleaned in the solution?
  6. I bought a 6497 clone, too, and at my first try the upper spring flew up and got lost. This one had a standard Incabloc shape ("lyre"), but of slightly different dimensions. So, it did not fit. To my chagrin I found out the there is no market for clone replacement parts. And clones are not really 100% identical to ETA original. For some unknown reason they made "improvements" or just imperfect copies of some parts. The clone, being so inexpensive, they want you to buy a new one rather than trying to make repair. On my Seagull I found a way, imperfect but Ok for practice, to use a standard Incablock lower spring. It's smaller but it can be carefully maneuvered into place.
  7. This could be a stem made of two parts, one engaged deep in the watch keyless works and another, one with the crown, threaded on as an extender. It's hard to see clearly, but if that is the case, then you can hold the one inside with the tweezers and unscrew the other.
  8. Clarifying: OFrei and Borel both offer tool sets for Kif Trior springs, and a set of these comes with 3 sizes. The first question for me would be whether these tools for Kif Trior would work OK with Novodiac springs, since the springs are not exactly the same. If the answer is yes this would probably solve this problem. Also, Horotec makes a couple of tools specifically for Novodiac springs, and specifically for some ETA calibers (2801, 2824, 2834, 2836, 2660, 2671, and 2688). Neither one list 6487 as a caliber that would fit any of these tools. It would be great to know whether someone used any of these tools successfully on 6497/6498 Novodiac spring.
  9. OFrei and Borel both offer tools for Novodiac springs, and a set of these comes with 3 sizes. Neither of the sizes list 6487 as a caliber that would specifically fit any of the tools from the set. It would be great to know whether someone used one of these tools, presumably the largest size, successfully on 6497/6498.
  10. I've seen some genuine ETA 6497-1's that use Novodiac type springs instead of a standard Incabloc. There are special tools made for Novodiac springs for various ETA movements but there is no such a tool available for 6497. So, I would like to know how difficult would it be to handle the replacement in absence of the tool? How do you push it down simultaneously in 3 places so it can be rotated to enter under the lips? What technique brings best results?
  11. Here's the solution I used, though not a perfect one it did the job. I used the standard Incabloc spring made for the LOWER setting. It fits because it has the correctly shaped longer neck. To install it I held it in a flat nose tweezers at an angle to the slot, lowered the spring into the slot, then turned the movement to align the spring with the slot and carefully lowered it down . Then used a pegwood to push it forward all the way towards the jewel. Then using the pegwood to prevent the spring from sliding back I engaged the ends, one at a time. Then again using pegwood (or a small screwdriver?) I made sure the spring is pushed all the way forward.
  12. Following tony1212 advice, thanks again, I've taken a very close look at the spring being very near the slot. Estimated what should be the width and the length of the neck of the spring to fit into the slot of the Incabloc block. It became obvious that the spring would not fit, ever. That was the first big step forward then, on a hunch, I looked at Incabloc lower spring and compared visually with Incabloc upper spring. The neck of the Incabloc lower looked perfect for the job. So, I inserted it with no problem whatsoever, closed carefully, and I was happy with how it worked. I then reassembled the cock, putting back the stud holder, the regulator, and the regulator index which keeps all parts together. It took me a few tries with that, but in the end I got it all OK. I will now be able to screw it back to the main plate and reattach the HS. Another step in my accumulating the experience... Now, the question is why the Incablock (original) upper spring would not fit into the slot, but the lower one would fit perfectly. I will be taking an educated guess that Chinese clone company was looking hard at anything of the original ETA design that could be cost reduced. Having two different springs to be kept in the inventory was suboptimal. So, they decided to use the same spring (from ETA lower) for both upper and lower. They must have redesigned slightly the upper Incablock block so it would match the lower spring. This confirms that a Chinese ETA clone should not be expected to be 100% clone. Minor modifications are added creating possibility that the parts might not be the same.
  13. Thanks, guys! Appreciate it. The springs I bought are for ETA 9764. Ofrei, in my experience, has been a very reputable supplier, so I believe the parts are guaranteed original ETA. The watch, however, is a Seagull. It's good to know that there might be some discrepancies in some dimensions. The Chinese don't offer spare parts, such as these springs, because it's a low cost business - if something breaks, you buy a new watch. I will follow this up and try to see if there is a problem with dimension of the width of the slot in the setting vs the width of neck of the spring. I will also try to find Marcs video on u-tube. Trying just to google it shows nothing. Next, I will do searches on U-tube and keep my fingers crossed...
  14. I bought this movement to learn basic disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly on my first encounter with a contemporary Swiss clone. When reattaching the Incablock upper spring to prepare the lower plate with the balance (cap jewels removed) I had my first encounter with a UFO. I wan't sufficiently careful manipulating the spring back to close and it flew off, of course, never to be seen again. Lesson learned. I got a few "practice" Incablock settings and now I have a better feel on how to open and close in a way that is safer. I also bought 5 springs for 6497 Incablock upper (Ofrei). Now I am trying to manipulate a replacement spring back into its setting, and it feel like I am losing my mind. It doesn't want to go in. I first tried to put it back by brute force: I put it into the slot in the setting holding the spring vertical and trying to land it down at an angle, then twist it so it would be aligned with the direction in which the spring rotates up and down. This didn't work. The spring was in but it would not let itself be aligned. One spring destroyed trying to force it. Next I decided to tackle disassembly of the balance cock and removed the stud holding arm and the regulator arm, so now I can see the wide and deep slot cut into the setting. I put the stripped down cock on a piece of Rodico and have been trying to insert a new spring into that slot while holding the spring vertical and sliding it towards the center. Each time I try I encounter a problem as if the neck of the spring was somewhat wider than the slot. I know that is not likely, but that is precisely how it feels. So, the spring is not aligned with the slot direction and it doesn't seem to be happy when I try to move it into alignment. It resists strongly my nodging just as if it was wider than the slot on top. I tried to press it with an old oiler but it would not budge. I searched the internet for ideas but found none, especially related this type of shock absorber spring ("lyre"). So, what is the technique that would be recommended to get this bugger back into his home? Any advice you can give me , especially if had some hand-on experience with this, would be greatly appreciated.
  15. Thank you for replies. Meanoldmanning's photo was extremely helpful. I found now these screws on my watch. Thank you!!!
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