These dial screws just won't budge! What's going on?

[VWatchie]

The dial screws on this Unitas 6325, that I just started to take apart for a service, just won’t budge! I dressed my 1mm screwdriver as well as I possibly could and checked, under strong magnification, how it fits in the screw slot, but getting it to grip the screw slot good enough just seems impossible. The screws are probably too damaged. I do get a grip, but no matter how much force I apply the screws won’t move one bit. Looking at the screw under strong magnification while trying to unscrew it I can see how it begins to deteriorate even more.

During the 2½ years I’ve been doing this I’ve never experienced this before. What’s going on? Has some idiot (pardon my French) glued the dial screws before screwing them in? Why? I’m puzzled! 
I reckon this movement is doomed never to be serviced again. I just bought it on eBay and was really looking forward to servicing it and wearing it, so I feel pretty disappointed. Actually, I feel a bit sad too. How can anyone abuse such a, in my opinion, beautiful watch/movement?

I really don’t think there’s a reasonable way to salvage this movement so I’m returning it to the seller, but I thought I’d check with you guys first. What do you think?
 

[oldhippy]

Are you sure there not dummy screws. Just there for show. 

[clockboy]

It looks like they are already undone. I presume you have tried to lift the dial. The only other thought is they are cross threaded. 

[VWatchie]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Are you sure there not dummy screws. Just there for show. 

Never heard of the concept. This is a Unitas 6325 movement. Not a Chinese toy, which is the kind of thing I associate with something "dummy".

[VWatchie]

2 hours ago, clockboy said:

It looks like they are already undone. I presume you have tried to lift the dial. The only other thought is they are cross threaded. 

How can you tell that the screws look undone?  The screws are buried in the movement by approx. 0.5mm.

Yes, but not too hard as I felt a distinct resistance where the dial screws are located.

Cross threaded, you mean like most screws for the crown wheel? I've tried to unscrew them clockwise as well but no, they won't budge in either direction.

Perhaps the dial sits with dial dots... Then again if not, and I try to pry the dial I might damage it. 

Watch repairing can be so very frustrating at times. This is such a time...

[DavidMasters]

This may be a bad thing in some eyes, but in the past I've heated a paper clip or an old screw driver until red hot. Then hold it to screw head. This causes the screw to expand. when it cools it may break loose.

Edited July 27, 2019 by DavidMasters
misspelling

[nickelsilver]

Try a smaller screwdriver. In 20 years I've yet to encounter a frozen dial screw.

[oldhippy]

Here are two photos of the movement. I have marked where the dial feet fit in. The dial is held in place by dial screws and there is nothing out of the ordinary. They should be like number 23 and screw in the side of the movement.

[yankeedog]

previous owner may have glued the dial down.most likely culprit crazy glue.Try a bit of acetone or nail polish remover on screw heads.Don't become impatient.

[vinn3]

17 hours ago, VWatchie said:

The dial screws on this Unitas 6325, that I just started to take apart for a service, just won’t budge! I dressed my 1mm screwdriver as well as I possibly could and checked, under strong magnification, how it fits in the screw slot, but getting it to grip the screw slot good enough just seems impossible. The screws are probably too damaged. I do get a grip, but no matter how much force I apply the screws won’t move one bit. Looking at the screw under strong magnification while trying to unscrew it I can see how it begins to deteriorate even more.

During the 2½ years I’ve been doing this I’ve never experienced this before. What’s going on? Has some idiot (pardon my French) glued the dial screws before screwing them in? Why? I’m puzzled! 
I reckon this movement is doomed never to be serviced again. I just bought it on eBay and was really looking forward to servicing it and wearing it, so I feel pretty disappointed. Actually, I feel a bit sad too. How can anyone abuse such a, in my opinion, beautiful watch/movement?

I really don’t think there’s a reasonable way to salvage this movement so I’m returning it to the seller, but I thought I’d check with you guys first. What do you think?
 

      how about a photo of the watch.   these don't look like dial screws.

[m1ks]

I've only once come across a partially seized dial foot screw and that was badly corroded due to water ingress at some point. Can you see the dial feet protruding through from the back of the movement to confirm they definitely are?
They do look like they should be and if so the only other thing i could possibly think is that someone has used industrial stud lock rather than a weak threadlock, (neither of which should go near a watch internals).
If you're certain they are, and if you have a thin tipped soldering iron, try applying the tip to the screw head to transfer heat to see if you can break the bond on the screw threads, be very careful though.

[VWatchie]

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement! 

I'll take a good look again before I decide whether to send it back or not. However, right now I am on vacation so it will take a week or two before I get a chance to have a go at it again.

I'll begin by checking if I can see the dial feet protruding through from the back of the movement. If so, and depending on what I see, I’ll try with a smaller screwdriver (especially dressed for the occasion) before I try something more drastic such as acetone or a heated paper clip/soldering iron, if at all…

Again thanks, much appreciated!

[VWatchie]

On 7/27/2019 at 2:14 AM, DavidMasters said:

This may be a bad thing in some eyes, but in the past I've heated a paper clip or an old screw driver until red hot. Then hold it to screw head. This causes the screw to expand. when it cools it may break loose.

 

On 7/27/2019 at 12:49 PM, yankeedog said:

previous owner may have glued the dial down.most likely culprit crazy glue.Try a bit of acetone or nail polish remover on screw heads.Don't become impatient.

Never in a thousand years would I have come up with the idea to drive an “annealed iron” into a watch movement to solve my problem, but in desperation, I tried this idea, and lo and behold, it worked!

Sing Hallelujah! 

By removing the balance cock and the train wheel bridge I could get a good view of the dial feet and the dial screws. The dial screws had been screwed in so forcefully that they had deformed the dial feet into a concave shape. I’m surprised the slots of the dial screws could survive such extreme abuse, but of course, the slots were in very bad shape too. However, I could see zero traces of glue.

Using my stereomicroscope, I dressed up a screwdriver to fit one of the slots the best I possibly could. I then heated up a paper clip having approx. the same diameter as the dial screw hole under candlelight (not best heat source) until it was glowing red and then quickly shoved it into the dial screw hole and pressed it against the screw. After having cooled off for a few minutes I tried unscrewing but feeling how the remains of the slot were beginning to give in I paused, thinking this must surely be a hopeless case.

Anyway, at this point I thought it could possibly help, although I had very little hope at this point, to repeat the “paper clip trick” a few times but only try unscrewing after the last heating/cooling cycle. The idea was that this would repeatedly nudge the screw. So, the last attempt, thinking “all or nothing”, deep breath, and miracles of miracles the screw came loose! I repeated the process with the second dial screw and it too came loose.

At this point, I ran out to our living room, where my wife and daughter were watching some TV show, made a victory dance and explained what I had just managed. My wife and daughter rolled their eyes and continued watching the TV show.

So, I’m extremely grateful for your tips, and encouragement to be patient. Thank you!