Does anyone recognise this please?

[Deggsie]

Today I received 12 old watches I bought on an auction site and was disappointed that 5 were quarts and not all mechanical as described. However I think just one of the watches makes up for it as it has a lot of character. Does anyone recognise this watch or movement please. There is no branding on the dial or apparent manufacturer on the movement. Inside the back cover it say DENNISON CASE. Please see photos below:

 

 

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[RyMoeller]

I have a piece that's a lot like that one- also with an unsigned movement.  Mine is a vintage Delmar woman's watch. The movement is small and fits in a rolled gold case almost identical to yours. I'll post some images tonight.

It's a pretty movement with perlage on both the top and bottom plates, Breguet hairspring, and compensating balance. A bit of research on the internet suggested the movement may be a variation of an early AS movement, although which I cannot recall.

Regardless, it's a nice piece. 

[Chopin]

Seen one a few weeks ago almost identical to yours. Can't remember if the movement was like this. Also unbranded. They're pretty interesting but don't hope for something mega rare and expensive.

Time period is 30s probably...

[Deggsie]

Seen one a few weeks ago almost identical to yours. Can't remember if the movement was like this. Also unbranded. They're pretty interesting but don't hope for something mega rare and expensive.
Time period is 30s probably...

Unfortunately, I just noticed the Chrystal (a polymer or sorts) has been repaired with what looks like aradite presumably to stop it falling out[emoji51]


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[Deggsie]

I have a piece that's a lot like that one- also with an unsigned movement.  Mine is a vintage Delmar woman's watch. The movement is small and fits in a rolled gold case almost identical to yours. I'll post some images tonight.
It's a pretty movement with perlage on both the top and bottom plates, Breguet hairspring, and compensating balance. A bit of research on the internet suggested the movement may be a variation of an early AS movement, although which I cannot recall.
Regardless, it's a nice piece.  [emoji4]

Would information / drawings be available to help me disassemble and service? I might hold tight until I have more experience with scrap movements. Cheers. Deggsy


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[wls1971]

The back cover also says its 9 ct gold its a pretty typical ladies watch of the 1920's but you should be able to date it from the hallmark. The movement is I would guess a FHF movement, it looks in quite good nick from the photos and would probably do with a crystal change anyway as that one looks to have yellowed with age. It is a good quality watch that someone would love to have.

[Deggsie]

The back cover also says its 9 ct gold its a pretty typical ladies watch of the 1920's but you should be able to date it from the hallmark. The movement is I would guess a FHF movement, it looks in quite good nick from the photos and would probably do with a crystal change anyway as that one looks to have yellowed with age. It is a good quality watch that someone would love to have.

Thanks for your input here. So the yellowing polymer is authentic? Do you know if these are still obtainable please, or would I need to make one ?
Regards deggsy


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[wls1971]

You should be able to get a crystal for the watch from cousins or Ebay some sizes of crystal are hard to get now a days, but i find small oblong crystals for cocktail watches can be hard to source but I dont think you will have a problem with a round crystal.

[DouglasSkinner]

Sometimes you have to take down the movement to see who made it.  Did you look on the dial side of the movement (after removing the dial)?  Sometimes there's a trademark there.

[Deggsie]

Sometimes you have to take down the movement to see who made it.  Did you look on the dial side of the movement (after removing the dial)?  Sometimes there's a trademark there.

Hello Douglas. I've not taken this apart yet, but will keep you all posted on what I find. Cheers. Deggsy


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[oldhippy]

If you cant find any ID under the balance, remove the movement from the case, take the hands off and remove the dial and see if there's any ID there, if not take a good picture of the keyless work and post it here as many old watches can be I d that way, the bestfit catalog should have the info and I know clockboy on here has a copy and should be able to help you. I have said many times on the forum these old ID books are a wealth of info, keep your eyes open as these old books come up on ebay.

Every thing that wis1971 has said about this watch is correct.

[StuartBaker104]

Doubtless from the FHF stable, similar to this, http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&FHF_002_10_5 although I expect an 8.75 ligne (19.5mm) rather than 10.5 ligne (23mm)

You will be wanting a sternkreuz m crystal... https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/domed-slightly-sternkreuz-m, and Hirsch sell a nice range of open ended straps

Sadly once finished, these have little commercial value, but make really nice and unusual presents

[Watchtime]

very nice watch indeed,....if you want I can have a look in my crystals stock for the correct crystal if you send me the size. As for the auction, if they are misdescribed, you can return them and get your money back.

[oldhippy]

The glass you need for this type of watch is what is called a low dome.

[rogart63]

Is it acrylic crystal or mineral? Have some small mineral crystals with low dome if that would help? 

[oldhippy]

It will be acrylic.

[Deggsie]

very nice watch indeed,....if you want I can have a look in my crystals stock for the correct crystal if you send me the size. As for the auction, if they are misdescribed, you can return them and get your money back.

That's a kind offer watch time, but I think the case has been damaged or a part is missing. There is no visible groove or way of holding the crystal in. Hence I think that's why the previous owner has glued it in[emoji51]


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[StuartBaker104]

Acrylic crystals are a compression fit. The case should have a step which the crystal fits inside. If it has been glued in that's probably because it is too small. 

 

You should ideally buy an acrylic crystal which is 0.2mm bigger than the diameter of the opening in the case. You will then either need a press or a claw tool to flex the crystal to fit it. https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/round-glasses-superior

Sometimes it is difficult to find the right size and so crystals do get glued in. GS hypo cement is the right thing for this https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/gs-hypo-cement

I'm not 100% sure that this would be a low dome as OldHippy says. That would be a Sternkreuz type N rather than M. Low dome type N will project more out of the case than a slightly domed type M. If you remove the old one and post a picture of the edge then we can advise.

[Deggsie]

Acrylic crystals are a compression fit. The case should have a step which the crystal fits inside. If it has been glued in that's probably because it is too small. 
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You should ideally buy an acrylic crystal which is 0.2mm bigger than the diameter of the opening in the case. You will then either need a press or a claw tool to flex the crystal to fit it. https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/round-glasses-superior
Sometimes it is difficult to find the right size and so crystals do get glued in. GS hypo cement is the right thing for this https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/gs-hypo-cement
I'm not 100% sure that this would be a low dome as OldHippy says. That would be a Sternkreuz type N rather than M. Low dome type N will project more out of the case than a slightly domed type M. If you remove the old one and post a picture of the edge then we can advise.

Hello Stuart. I think I will carefully remove the Acrylic and try to see the groove you mention. It's certainly not evident with 10x eye loop - but I will get some photos for us to discuss.


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[RyMoeller]

Here's those pics I promised, better late than never. Top and bottom plate are taken before service (yes, it was a dirty one) and the last pic is post service.

I made a mistake before as it's not a Breguet overcoil hairspring. The rest is quite nice though- lots of perlage.  No identifiable markings on the top or bottom plates so it's a guess as to who made the movement. I think FHF is probably the best guess.

I haven't found a service guide, but I dropped all my service pics into my Public Dropbox folder if you want to grab them. I'll keep them there for a month or so.

 

[Deggsie]

Hello Stuart. I think I will carefully remove the Acrylic and try to see the groove you mention. It's certainly not evident with 10x eye loop - but I will get some photos for us to discuss.


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Hello all and apologies for the delay in getting the photos back to you as promised. I removed the acrylic crystal and it was sadly held on by something like araldite and also a grey resin like compound - see photo. My camera equipment is not high tech yet so please forgive the quality in comparison to some of the better images I see on here. There definitely is no ridge, just a plain bore in the case. Maybe this is why the crystal was held in with resin?

Here are those images:



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[StuartBaker104]

I'm struggling to see the detail of the top of the case on these pictures. Here is a similar case where you can see the expected groove on picture 6

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-1931s-ANTIQUE-LADIES-9CT-GOLD-375-HAND-WIND-SWISS-MADE-WATCH-CACHECASE-/232258360767

If there is no groove, then the only option I can see is one of these, although I've never seen a case like that with a stepped crystal... https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/domed-underlayed-sternkreuz-u

[wls1971]

You will need a type of crystal for that called a underlayed crystal they are available from cousins and have a extended flat lip around the edge they are pushed in place from underneath, you have probably looked the hallmark up but it appears to be 1930 the patent number refers to the case "Cachecase" and was first patented in 1926.

[Deggsie]

I'm struggling to see the detail of the top of the case on these pictures. Here is a similar case where you can see the expected groove on picture 6
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-1931s-ANTIQUE-LADIES-9CT-GOLD-375-HAND-WIND-SWISS-MADE-WATCH-CACHECASE-/232258360767
If there is no groove, then the only option I can see is one of these, although I've never seen a case like that with a stepped crystal... https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/domed-underlayed-sternkreuz-u

Hello. For clarity, here is another photo of the outside of the case with the movement installed

I can see the groove you mention ref photo 4 in the auction, but the case I have just has a plain bore as in my last photos. Maybe bodged in the past due to damage?



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[oldhippy]

17 minutes ago, StuartBaker104 said:

I'm struggling to see the detail of the top of the case on these pictures. Here is a similar case where you can see the expected groove on picture 6

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-1931s-ANTIQUE-LADIES-9CT-GOLD-375-HAND-WIND-SWISS-MADE-WATCH-CACHECASE-/232258360767

If there is no groove, then the only option I can see is one of these, although I've never seen a case like that with a stepped crystal... https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/domed-underlayed-sternkreuz-u

That first case would have what is known as a low dome acrylic glass. The same with me the picture is not clear to my sight to me its blurred.