Stem loose, but could this be a scam?

[VWatchie]

A few days ago a friend of mine called and asked me if I could take a look at his wife’s mechanical watch as the stem had come loose. Having serviced some 15 or so mechanical Vostoks and Poljots, two Unitas 6498, and most recently an ETA 1080 I felt pretty confident I might be able to find and fix the problem.

According to my friend they’d bought the watch on their holiday in San Mario and had paid a little less than €300 Euro. Considering the price and my experience so far, my guess was that the watch would probably have a pretty standard 17 jewel mechanical movement, and furthermore that a likely cause might be a dislocated setting lever. So, I decided to take on the challenge.

A few days later I had the watch in my hands and below is what it looked like:

As you can see it’s a skeleton watch. Never worked on any of those before but I’d assume they just have less metal than a normal movement. Anyway, after having removed the snap on case back lid I felt quite disconcerted. I couldn’t figure out how to remove the movement from the case as I couldn’t find any movement fixing ring screws. Furthermore, it seemed to be fitted with wheels serving no purpose, and the setting lever push screw (which I’m not even sure it was) just wouldn’t budge one bit when I tried to press and/or move it a bit. As far as I could tell, the dial seemed fitted on the case and not on the dial. And funny there’s a print on the crystal (never saw that before). The overall design felt very "different" to what I had seen before.

So, I don’t know what to make out of this and would really like to hear your opinions about this watch and if you think there’s something I can do to repair it. I do not have a lot of experience but this watch makes something of a “toyish” impression on me and I feel confused. Could it be a “scam watch”? If I can't get it out of the case (I've tried to lift it with quite a bit of force) there's nothing much I can do, is there?

[Endeavor]

To me this watch screams to keep your hands off  !!! ....... you have no idea how many Gremlins this watch has?

My honest advice; Return this watch to your friend saying it's above your abilities / capabilities. There is nothing wrong with that.

Better returning the watch as it is, than returning a plastic bag full of parts and a "I'm sorry".

Better be safe than sorry .....

[Endeavor]

And there is/was nothing wrong with your gut feeling

I had a similar experience with an antique (+/- 1730) clock I was asked to have a look at ....... skip to the end if you thinks it's too long or boring (however it's interesting to read how the story develops / changes every time new information surfaced)

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/7826-tools-required-for-an-antique-long-case/?page=2

 

[VWatchie]

Thanks, Endeavor! You're absolutely right and I really don't feel like I want to give it a try, so I'll do exactly as you say. BTW, is that a "real movement" or just some unnamed Chinese made movement?

[rogart63]

Maybe not a fake watch. But does looks like it's badly made. i should say it's junk and i am sorry for your friend that he paid that kind of money for that. Bye him a nice vintage watch from Tradera and  service it for him instead. 

[ecodec]

Hi friend, I have never seen one of those before. I will be kind and my opinion is that it is Cheap whatever it is. Return it to your friend and beg to be excused. Regards, Mike.

[Endeavor]

I have no idea what it is, but it's like with the old clock were multiple people through the centuries worked on, you have no idea what has been done and what is hidden. Once you start on it, you are completely on your own. There is no reference, no documentation and most likely nobody on this forum can help you.

I don't think you need to beg to be excused. It requires wisdom to know where your limits are; to know what you can do and can't do. That can only be respected.

[clockboy]

A cheap movement for sure and possibly all sorts of issues. Return the watch giving your friend your honest opinion. These cheap watches have numerous faults such as poor screws that shear etc. 

[Geo]

I would love to have a go at fixing that................only if It was mine and had paid a couple of bob for it.

[VWatchie]

Thanks, guys! I felt slightly bad about this at first, but having read your posts I will simply return it to the owner telling him I'm just not up to it. He knows I'm not a professional, and I was very careful not to make any promises, so we should be fine. After that, I will just simply forget about this "incident".

[VWatchie]

25 minutes ago, Geo said:

I would love to have a go at fixing that................only if It was mine and had paid a couple of bob for it.

If the owner no longer wants it I can send it to you. In that case, I'll get in touch with you. Then, perhaps you can share the experience with us, whatever the outcome!? I'm sure we could all learn something. Of course, you'd get to keep the watch as yours!

I will, as gently as possible, recommend the owner not to spend any money on repair but rather, as rogart63 suggested, recommend a nice mechanical vintage watch for his wife which I could help him service.

[StuartBaker104]

A quick scan through the Seagull catalogue at Cousins suggests this is a TY2721; would need to confirm the size at 26mm to be more certain. They don’t carry it in stock but will quote if you ask - likely to be about £30. Spare parts will not be available, and I would say €300 is about 3 or 4 times what this watch is worth.

There is an auto version of this movement, and the unused wheels are likely part of the auto mechansim.

The upside to a skeleton movement is that you should be able to see all of the parts of the keyless works clearly while the movement is still in the case. You describe the problem as being that the stem is loose. Do you mean it comes out completely? If so, what do you see on the dial side if you try to push it back in? What type of crystal does this have? Can it be easily emoved to give access to the keyless works?

 

 

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, StuartBaker104 said:

A quick scan through the Seagull catalogue at Cousins suggests this is a TY2721; would need to confirm the size at 26mm to be more certain. They don’t carry it in stock but will quote if you ask - likely to be about £30. Spare parts will not be available, and I would say €300 is about 3 or 4 times what this watch is worth.

There is an auto version of this movement, and the unused wheels are likely part of the auto mechansim.

The upside to a skeleton movement is that you should be able to see all of the parts of the keyless works clearly while the movement is still in the case. You describe the problem as being that the stem is loose. Do you mean it comes out completely? If so, what do you see on the dial side if you try to push it back in? What type of crystal does this have? Can it be easily emoved to give access to the keyless works?

 

 

Thanks for the info!

Yes, the stem comes out completely! Looking at the dial side pushing the stem back in there's no motion in any of the parts except the sliding clutch/pinion which rotates but doesn't reach the crown wheel. The crystal feels like glass and lies flat with the case. I was considering trying to remove it, but don't know if it's possible or how.

Anyway, I feel I'm done with this watch...

[transporter]

Looks like the same movement they put in rotary watches, have a look on ebay and you will find them, i have one here, another job I had, apparently the owner fell over, in doing so then top plate got bent balance staff snapped hands fell off!!! I just bought a complete rotary watch off the bay for around £15 and swapped the movements.

But I would take others advise and return it, im doing the exact same thing on a fussee pocket watch that is beyond me at the moment, the other pocket watch they gave me is giving me so much grief wish I hadn't taken it on either but there you go.

[yankeedog]

Please forgive me if I get the nomenclature wrong.The plunger which you pointed out should of course move.It may be immobilized by corrosion.If it is stuck in a downward position it would not allow the little protrusion that engages the stem and retains it in the movement to do it's job.Other than that you are looking at parts breakage.I wouldn't do anything other than apply the smallest drop of penetrating oil to the plunger.