Staking set with no press/clamp device

[omx5o]

Hi,

first post here, and a total beginner, so apologies if this turns out to be a dumb question.

I recently acquired a nice little Hamilton 922B with what I believe is a broken balance staff. So, in preparation, I've bought a staking set to help with fitting a replacement staff. I found quite a good value tool set, however, it doesn't include the top clamping piece which lines up with the holes in the anvil. It's basically just a cylindrical anvil and a set of staking pieces. Does this matter, can I still use the thing with a steady hand and a hammer, or is there another piece of kit that I need to purchase?

Peter

[frenchie]

Welcome!

Can you post a picture?

[vinn3]

  On 4/5/2018 at 2:26 PM, omx5o said:

Hi,

first post here, and a total beginner, so apologies if this turns out to be a dumb question.

I recently acquired a nice little Hamilton 922B with what I believe is a broken balance staff. So, in preparation, I've bought a staking set to help with fitting a replacement staff. I found quite a good value tool set, however, it doesn't include the top clamping piece which lines up with the holes in the anvil. It's basically just a cylindrical anvil and a set of staking pieces. Does this matter, can I still use the thing with a steady hand and a hammer, or is there another piece of kit that I need to purchase?

Peter

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   welcome Peter;  the alignment of the stake and the anvil (hole) are critacal.   BUT,  "a steady hand and a hammer" is a very good thing.  vin

[khunter]

A proper staking set would be the best route, like these...replacing a staff isn't what I would call a beginners job, but luckily some later 992Bs had friction fit staffs which would make it a little easier. Doing it "freehand" would not be a good idea though. 

[khunter]

  On 4/5/2018 at 2:26 PM, omx5o said:

Hi,

first post here, and a total beginner, so apologies if this turns out to be a dumb question.

I recently acquired a nice little Hamilton 922B with what I believe is a broken balance staff. So, in preparation, I've bought a staking set to help with fitting a replacement staff. I found quite a good value tool set, however, it doesn't include the top clamping piece which lines up with the holes in the anvil. It's basically just a cylindrical anvil and a set of staking pieces. Does this matter, can I still use the thing with a steady hand and a hammer, or is there another piece of kit that I need to purchase?

Peter

Expand  

What you're describing sounds like this. This is mainly used for clocks and is not suitable for pocket watches, the punches are much too large.

[omx5o]

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes, I agree it’s not an ideal fix for a beginner, but I intend to do a few simpler jobs before eventually servicing the Hamilton.

Here is the set, and you can see the watch there as well.

[Chopin]

Speaking of staking sets where can one acquire one that is as cheap as possible ? Are there any cheap brand new alternatives or pre-owned/vintage ?

[omx5o]

Oh well, looks like I’ll either have to get into clocks instead or put it on eBay. Probably the latter.

I’ll have to see if I can pick up a correct one for a good price somewhere.

[jguitron]

Depends on what type of balance wheel it is. Only with glucydur you can stake the staff off. Others run the great risk of damaging the balance wheel and then you need the whole thing replaced. Best to use a lathe to remove riveted staff and then the staking tool to place the new one.

Good luck!


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[omx5o]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:21 PM, jguitron said:

Depends on what type of balance wheel it is.

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I've seen a video on YouTube for replacing a 922B balance staff, and it was a friction type with the blue hub. I'm now hoping mine is of the same type. Soon find out.

[jguitron]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:31 PM, omx5o said:

I've seen a video on YouTube for replacing a 922B balance staff, and it was a friction type with the blue hub. I'm now hoping mine is of the same type. Soon find out.

If in doubt, glucydur has the trumpeted arms. Quick google search will show you variations. That’s the highest quality wheel that you can punch on. Anything else, your wheel will get out of true in the flat.


It’s great you’re working on it. Nothing better than guided experience.




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[jguitron]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:31 PM, omx5o said:

I've seen a video on YouTube for replacing a 922B balance staff, and it was a friction type with the blue hub. I'm now hoping mine is of the same type. Soon find out.

 

 

Sorry triple post from Tapatalk!

 

 

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[jguitron]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:31 PM, omx5o said:

I've seen a video on YouTube for replacing a 922B balance staff, and it was a friction type with the blue hub. I'm now hoping mine is of the same type. Soon find out.

 

 

Might as well use this extra post to show something!!

 

 

 

 

 

Look how the arms fan out close to the rim. That’s a glucydur.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[jdrichard]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:15 PM, Chopin said:

Speaking of staking sets where can one acquire one that is as cheap as possible ? Are there any cheap brand new alternatives or pre-owned/vintage ?

Uncle Larry’s, google it


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[jdrichard]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:15 PM, Chopin said:

Speaking of staking sets where can one acquire one that is as cheap as possible ? Are there any cheap brand new alternatives or pre-owned/vintage ?

Uncle Larry’s, google it


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[jdrichard]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:15 PM, Chopin said:

Speaking of staking sets where can one acquire one that is as cheap as possible ? Are there any cheap brand new alternatives or pre-owned/vintage ?

Uncle Larry’s, google it


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[khunter]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:34 PM, jguitron said:

 

 

Might as well use this extra post to show something!!

 

 

 

 

 

Look how the arms fan out close to the rim. That’s a glucydur.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Unfortunately that's not appropriate for a 992B Hamilton. 

[khunter]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:15 PM, Chopin said:

Speaking of staking sets where can one acquire one that is as cheap as possible ? Are there any cheap brand new alternatives or pre-owned/vintage ?

Expand  

They come up on ebay frequently, best bet for a vintage set.

[khunter]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:34 PM, jguitron said:

 

 

 

If in doubt, glucydur has the trumpeted arms. Quick google search will show you variations. That’s the highest quality wheel that you can punch on. Anything else, your wheel will get out of true in the flat.


It’s great you’re working on it. Nothing better than guided experience.




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This is the easiest tool to use for removing riveted staffs, and it keeps you from distorting the balance arms. As a beginner the OP likely doesn't have a watch lathe to turn the shoulder off with, and that's a much more advanced skill anyway.

[omx5o]

There's a specialist antique watch/clock repairer near to my home. If I buy a replacement staff, then take it in with the balance wheel, perhaps he'll be able to put the new one in for a reasonable price. It would save me from having to delve too far into a new hobby at this early stage.

[khunter]

  On 4/5/2018 at 4:20 PM, omx5o said:

There's a specialist antique watch/clock repairer near to my home. If I buy a replacement staff, then take it in with the balance wheel, perhaps he'll be able to put the new one in for a reasonable price. It would save me from having to delve too far into a new hobby at this early stage.

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That would probably be your best bet. As I stated earlier, replacing a balance staff isn't a beginner's task, especially when dealing with such a nice watch as a 992B. I would also take the whole watch in, don't try to disassemble it yourself, as further damage can result if you're not familiar with such things. If you want to experiment/practice, there are tons of cheap american pocket watch movements on ebay, I'd start out with those until you get more experienced. As a side note, we didn't even mention the part about removing the roller table, hairspring, etc, and replacing said parts all back in the proper orientation, which is a whole other set of skills to develop. I don't want to discourage you, I would just let a more experienced repair person work on this particular watch, it's really too valuable to "tinker" with....

Edited April 5, 2018 by khunter
additional thought

[MrRoundel]

If you consider getting a K&D remover, make sure that you measure the distance from the staking table and bottom of the arm. There are different height tools for different height staking sets. There are also smaller punches, with a smaller, tapered end to the tool, for bracelet watches. Old style K&D 600 series, and probably before take the 7/8" models. Model 18 and up take the 1 1/8" models. This according to the K&D staking tool booklet. Good luck.

[BUSAKAZ]

  On 4/5/2018 at 3:48 PM, khunter said:

This is the easiest tool to use for removing riveted staffs, and it keeps you from distorting the balance arms. As a beginner the OP likely doesn't have a watch lathe to turn the shoulder off with, and that's a much more advanced skill anyway.

It’s never a good idea to knock a staff out, if they are not friction fit then use a lathe to cut it off, I’ve just done a staff on a 992B and the new one I received it was to long and the pivots were to big so I had to resize them, so if you are hoping to get one and plonk it in you might be in for a shock.....


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[khunter]

  On 4/6/2018 at 11:25 AM, BUSAKAZ said:

It’s never a good idea to knock a staff out, if they are not friction fit then use a lathe to cut it off, I’ve just done a staff on a 992B and the new one I received it was to long and the pivots were to big so I had to resize them, so if you are hoping to get one and plonk it in you might be in for a shock.....


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I'm not sure where you got your staff, but if you had to resize it, it was the wrong staff to begin with. I've used the K&D staff remover for years with absolutely zero problems. It may be preferable to turn off a rivet shoulder on a lathe, but...

A: Not everyone has a watch lathe, especially a beginner as the OP stated he is, and 

B: Using a lathe to turn it off requires great skill, and much more damage can be done with a slip of a graver.

Everyone has their own preferred method to do things, but stating there is only "one way" is a bit presumptuous. 

[BUSAKAZ]

  On 4/6/2018 at 11:44 AM, khunter said:

I'm not sure where you got your staff, but if you had to resize it, it was the wrong staff to begin with. I've used the K&D staff remover for years with absolutely zero problems. It may be preferable to turn off a rivet shoulder on a lathe, but...
A: Not everyone has a watch lathe, especially a beginner as the OP stated he is, and 
B: Using a lathe to turn it off requires great skill, and much more damage can be done with a slip of a graver.
Everyone has their own preferred method to do things, but stating there is only "one way" is a bit presumptuous. 

Who said there is only one way, in my eyes there is two,friction fit or turn the staff off that’s it.

It was the right staff just not a genuine one, I would never force a staff out basically that’s what you are doing and making the hole larger and as the staff is harder material than the balance arm there is a good possibility of distortion which will cause problems in itself.


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