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My First Staking Set Advice


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18 minutes ago, pent said:

Should I chance it and hopefully not regret it

Almost impossible to answer.  The Bergeon set looks very nice.  For the amount of money, I would expect it to be!!

My addiction to staking sets almost rivals my addiction to lathes!  I have a number of K&D and Marshall, as well as some incomplete sets and boxes.

All of my stuff is vintage and they have never disappointed me.  If money is an issue, cancel the Bergeon and find a used K&D or Marshall.

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Funny you mention lathes, as I just put a bid in on a Boley vintage 8mm lathe that looks to be in excellent condition.  It will be my first, but that's for another thread.  

The money isn't an issue for me, but it never hurts to save a few hundred bucks.  I have mostly Berg tools, so I have no doubt it will be top notch, but I know K&D was also very high quality.  I may just make a slightly lower offer and go for it if he accepts.

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3 hours ago, pent said:

have had a Berg 5285D set on order since December (supply chain issues, blah blah).  I just recently found out Berg is cheaping out and switching to a hard plastic case instead of wood.  Disappointing, but not the end of the world, the set itself will still be excellent.

Maybe another question you want to ask yourself is if they've cheapened out on the box have they cheapened out on anything else? In other words the prices Swiss tools keep going up and up and up does the quality of the tools go up to match?

3 hours ago, pent said:

However, I just came across a used K&D inverto set with 36 more punches and 5 more stakes.  It's used of course and although every space in the box is full, I have no idea if it is complete.  Looks like it is and seems to be in very good vintage shape.

Vintage because they were meant to last forever. I would definitely go with this set versus a modern? Yes just because the Swiss are selling it doesn't mean the Swiss made it and I'd be concerned about the quality of things. I don't think just because you spend lots of money that you necessarily to get a quality tool anymore. But a lot of times for people in the group it's more about look at my impressive new set then something is necessarily functional

here's a website that talks about the used one you're looking at

https://kanddinverto.weebly.com/

 

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Great website reference JohnR725!  Very informative.  The seller took another 10% off the price and I noticed Bergeon jumped their price another $200 (with a plastic case?  wth!), so the K&D set is now mine.  Looks to be in great condition and maybe I'll rehab the wooden box a bit.  Thanks for all who replied!

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I've just got my first staking set made by favorite, it's a vintage set so don't know how old it is, the anvil body is silver/chrome and as the detatchable base,  the anvil is in good condition, the punches and stumps need a clean not rusty more of a dirty tarnish, i've tested that the punches line up with holes in the table below and seems ok, i'm well chuffed it's in such good condition.

It has 7 missing stumps out of 16 and 2 damaged punches out of 77, i knew the stumps were missing from the photos and expected a few of the punches maybe damaged from use over the years, i thought i'd just get replacement bergeon ones. 

I didn't ask if it was a 4.7mm set i wrongly assumed it was due to it been swiss made, the punches are 4mm diameter not 4.7mm so not abe to use the bergeon ones from cousins.

Can i still use the bergeon stumps, what size are the bergeon stumps that fit into the table are they 4.7mm or 4mm?

Are 4mm stumps available, i've had a look on a few sites but cannot find anything, i still think i got a good staking set it seems to be a quality tool although alot smaller than i expected, photos of watch tools seem to make them look alot bigger.

 

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1 hour ago, valleyguy said:

although alot smaller than i expected, photos of watch tools seem to make them look alot bigger.

Just for reference It would be nice if you could take a picture of your tool so we can see what it looks like.

1 hour ago, valleyguy said:

Are 4mm stumps available

I'm not sure because I'm not in a place to measure but you may have to expand beyond staking set and go to jeweling tool.. I think some of the stuff for the jeweling tools are 4 mm.

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On 7/23/2023 at 6:12 PM, pent said:

Great website reference JohnR725!  Very informative.  The seller took another 10% off the price and I noticed Bergeon jumped their price another $200 (with a plastic case?  wth!), so the K&D set is now mine.  Looks to be in great condition and maybe I'll rehab the wooden box a bit.  Thanks for all who replied!

In a twist of Fate, the Berg staking set just shipped.  Same time as the vintage one, so I'll have to compare them and decide which to send back/sell.  LOL

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1 hour ago, pent said:

In a twist of Fate, the Berg staking set just shipped.  Same time as the vintage one, so I'll have to compare them and decide which to send back/sell.  LOL

I will be interested to hear about the quality differences. Namely the finishes of staking punches I've heard the modern ones have to be refinished and the vintage last forever unless you break them.

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I've had the same staking set for 25 years, a full set Star. Before that a K&D. Jeweling is a mix of Favorite, Chatons SA and Horia. I'm a big believer in backups, so I have several Horia lever tools (used daily) and some micrometer Horias (used, sometimes?). The Star is starting to suffer on the small holes from staff rivetting.  Maybe when I'm 70 I'll regrind the anvil.

 

But I agree you can't have too many tools. There are so many!

Edited by nickelsilver
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I found a set of vintage favorite punches to replace the two damaged ones in the staking set, i asked dimensions this time before i got them to make sure they were 4mm, there are some extra punches that i didn't have and a few spares if i ever need replacements.

The shanks on the bergeon anvils seem to be 4.7mm from bergeons website data sheet, i don't know how easy it would be to turn down the shank to 4mm on a lathe as they are hardened steel, maybe easier to make 7 new stumps, i've got my eyes peeled for a lathe, one tool seems to lead to another.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Received the K&D staking set.  It is in very good condition.  All the stumps are there and in good condition.  It has about 5 missing stakes that were filled in with repeats to make it look complete, and another 3 that are damaged.  Not terrible out of 120 stakes but I don't know how easy it will be to replace them. 

The Berg set is very high quality feeling.  And even though it's in a hard plastic case, it has machined aluminum blocks for stake and stump storage that are all labeled with part numbers and a picture of what should be there.   The tool isn't as pretty as the K&D, but it is certainly built like you would expect.  I can't post a picture of it yet because if I open it further, I won't be able to return it. 

I'm leaning towards keeping the Berg and selling the K&D simply for the convenience of not hunting for replacement stakes and the fact that if something happens to the Berg stakes, they are easily available to replace.  But we'll see.  Maybe I will 'accidentally' price the K&D too high and have to keep it for a while lol.

IMG_1323.JPG

IMG_1324.JPG

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3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

This looks to be damaged. I think its one of those spring loaded ones. Looks a good set and will come in very handy. Make sure the stakes with holes are clear and not blocked up. 

IMG_1324.thumb.JPG.21af2e2cddbf31e5016ecb4bd9857ee9.jpg

 

That is the exact K&D set I use. Beware the actual box hinges are suspect and tend to snag on the inside of the lid when closing. The issues I have with it if removing a part what you need to retrieve is finds it’s way into the inside of the tool. Sometimes it is possible to use a stump and therefore retain the removed part. The other issue is the two smallest holes on the plate are blocked so I have to use a stump when needed.

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7 hours ago, pent said:

Received the K&D staking set.  It is in very good condition.

your box definitely looks much much nicer than mine at least on the outside. Mine looks like it's been well used as held together with screws.

Then yes typically was staking a cents if they've ever been used there will be? I know what work with time punches seemed to go missing and then they also end up not being in the right place which is what happens when others use the set.

7 hours ago, pent said:

I can't post a picture of it yet because if I open it further

well the answer is the question I had. What I'm curious about the staking set punches themselves. Why if you look at the end that you whack with the hammer what is the shape of that? Then yes and being cryptic with my questions deliberately I'm also curious about the punches themselves when you compare them to the others sat do they actually look the same? That's because somebody else sent me a picture of their set and even though it looked much better than what I thought it should look compared the descriptions I've had of other people. Although the other person apparently they didn't have one of these sets they had the stars set from Switzerland and in that set the punches were not finish still need to be finished. But the person that had this that well basically I be curious if you start comparing the punches side-by-side how they compare. but unfortunately you're not quite there yet.

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

This looks to be damaged

it looks more shiny than the one that I have but it looks fine? Is snipped out an image of the catalog just in case there's something I'm not seeing perhaps?

image.thumb.png.bd4e0bfd6d430bac0dc3e38f58177d8f.png

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello everyone, 

I'm contemplating my first staking set amd I don't want to spend too much. 

I found this one locally and the seller tells me that there's no brand on it... any ideas? Stakes are 4.7mm. Sorry, don't have a better picture (yet). 

 

download (3).jpeg

 

PS: it seems to be same as this one currently listed on ebay (I'd get it for around 200 though):

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/374703210612?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=709-127639-2357-0&ssspo=fky6JrrLRpG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=-tqzh2byt-e&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

2nd PS: it might be an Esser. 

Edited by Knebo
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On 2/9/2022 at 3:58 PM, JinTie said:

I think K&D is the best staking tool, it has so many functions. Luckily I got a set from a retiree.

In addition, I also record some brands, maybe some mistakes, because they are too much.

*(K&D )Kendrick & Davis 

West Lake Metalix   

C & E MARSHALL 

Levin 

Vigor 

Paramount 

G&F  

F.R 

 

*Boley 

Leinen 

Lorch Schmidt 

Henry Paulson 

Helios 

Georg Jacob K. G. Leipzig 

 

Manhora 

 

MKS  

GEM 

Mascot 

 

FAVORITE 

*Bergeon 

Horia 

*STAR 

Seitz 

*ESSER 

 

Pearl 

 

GESCo 

DRACIP 

Bayside 

F.LORCH

 

 

What do the asterisk* and all-caps mean please? 

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14 hours ago, Knebo said:

Hello everyone, 

I'm contemplating my first staking set amd I don't want to spend too much. 

I found this one locally and the seller tells me that there's no brand on it... any ideas? Stakes are 4.7mm. Sorry, don't have a better picture (yet). 

 

download (3).jpeg

 

PS: it seems to be same as this one currently listed on ebay (I'd get it for around 200 though):

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/374703210612?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=709-127639-2357-0&ssspo=fky6JrrLRpG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=-tqzh2byt-e&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

2nd PS: it might be an Esser. 

Sorry for successive postings... spending most of my day researching and went past editing window. 

I also just found this Boley:Screenshot_20230821_233228_eBay.thumb.jpg.36d0ba0140202818cfe1826d0c76ba93.jpg

If the missing elements on the bottom right are reamers, it would be ok for me because I have that covered in my Seitz set. 

Important question: does the base automatically (or in this particular case) imply that the stakes can be used "inverto-style" at the bottom? 

Between this one and the above, which would be your pick? Or neither? 

Thanks in advance for any advice! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, so in the end I got this Boley set in really immaculate condition. Can be used in the inverted style and has the ubiquitous 4.7mm sized stakes. 250 Euro (incl shipping). Only a few elements are missing (and I don't need the reamers that could be in the front right - I have them in my Seitz press). 

I'm happy. Now I just need to find good use for it 😂

20230902_133140.jpg

20230902_175021.thumb.jpg.647d66e59da4ab937809eb012dd9aa90.jpg20230902_175054.thumb.jpg.5f9edd6e726f89695f5ab3d4fcfc01cd.jpg

Edited by Knebo
added more photos
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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm looking for my first staking set.  The K&D sets seem to be well regarded.  I've been browsing around online and am a bit confused by the K&D models.  The Series 600 and the 18R are both invertos, but supposedly the Series 600 has a smaller frame.  Hard to tell from photos, but I don't really see much of a size difference.  Are the stakes of the Series 600 shorter?

Is it better to bite the bullet and get a Deluxe K&D 18R set, with all of the bells and whistles (assuming I can find a complete or close to complete set) or get a basic set, like the Series 600, and try to add the balance staff removers and roller table removers?

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1 hour ago, gpraceman said:

18R are both invertos

There are some minor problems with descriptions for instance.

Oh we have a website when you swipe some images

https://kanddinverto.weebly.com/

Let becomes interesting is the staking set submit out there for some time and there seems to be a certain degree of mixing and matching. For instance my base is a 18R and are basically has nothing left of the jeweling stuff and none of that is included in the box. I don't even know if I'd have to count whether the description below fits even the box that I have.

image.png.6eeae16fa04b359780f36fbb7c2d6c3b.png

Then farther down the pageNotice we get redesigned 600 so that means there must've been a prior 600 and this 600 just to add to the confusion

image.png.7ae2bf253cff697c6f6252e41aaef3b7.png

Then you can go poking around the website it has lots and lots of information

1 hour ago, gpraceman said:

Are the stakes of the Series 600 shorter?

Other than the description that somehow the frame is smaller or different I think all the bits and pieces would fit and you wouldn't build a tell the difference unless you compared it to another one.

 

 

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