Seiko 4207 driving me nuts?

[rogart63]

Serviced it first? Didn't get it to work properly so i bought 3 old 4205 movements from Ebay. Tried to rebuild a working movement out of this 4 movements . No way? So i resign and bought a new Seiko 4207 movement from Perrinwatches? Put it in and it was running very nice? Straight line in all positions. Now it has come back running like a cup of **BLEEP** . Can't understand what is happening and why? 

Tried to demagnitize it. It runs little bit better but has a very unsteady line. And could make it run okay? But soon runs like a cup of **BLEEP** again? 

What shall i do? 

[jdm]

Came back after an impact perhaps? Hairspirng issue, inspect it? if you poke gently the end stud and regulate, does anything change. Post timegrapher pictures.

Edited August 19, 2016 by jdm

[rogart63]

22 minutes ago, jdm said:

Came back after an impact perhaps? Hairspirng issue, inspect it? if you poke gently the end stud and regulate, does anything change. Post timegrapher pictures.

Will do? Been sent by postage?? 

[Cad101]

Sounds line its had a drop or knock as jdm says . Watches don't just go haywire for no reason. Is this a clients watch if so have you asked them what they've done with it on.

[rogart63]

Pictures of the watch . 

And timegrapher. 

Have to take some better tomorrow when the is light from the window.  You can see the bad line better if you click the picture. 
 

Edited August 19, 2016 by rogart63

[Cad101]

Its a regular fault thats for sure have you checked the escape wheel for any signs of damage or oil

[jdm]

The bad line is because of poor amplitude. And that in turn is likely to be hairspring or pivots / jewels issue. My opinion only.

[jdm]

Looking better seems like the HS is hitting somewhere, also.

[clockboy]

As I have stated in other posts take a methodical approach starting with the escape & balance. When the watch is running look at the hairsprings operation i.e. no coils sticking together,is it centred,is it running flat,check its end shake. If 100% OK then move on to the escape check the pallet jewels make sure they are not loose & spotlessly clean,check the escape wheel for damage & end shake. IF OK move on to the going train for free running end shake & all jewels ar clean & not cracked. This method I use seems slow but I speak from experience it,s the quickest way to find a fault/s.

As a side note when I assemble a watch I do these checks as I go. It is technically slower but in the end I find it quicker.

[jdm]

As I have stated in other posts take a methodical approach starting with the escape & balance..

All good but in this case it's a brand new movement which was running fine, so many possible causes can be ruled out. I think it's important to value the circumstances in each repair.

[clockboy]

Was it dropped or did it get wet

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Folkvisor]

Once I got a call from a customer complaining that the piano I'd repaired for her wasn't working. I found this very strange because it was fine when I'd worked on it last. Anyway, someone came in her house while she was on the phone with me and said in a loud voice, "So, when did it fall out of the truck anyway?" She just hung up. 

If they can have the gall to try to get someone to fix a piano that fell off a truck repaired for nothing...

You never know. Maybe they were playing golf or baseball with thing on their wrist; shock springs only work up to a point.

Just a thought...

[JohnR725]

20 hours ago, jdm said:

The bad line is because of poor amplitude. And that in turn is likely to be hairspring or pivots / jewels issue. My opinion only.

A extremely low amplitude like this means everything is going to look extremely bad. Even for diagnostics you need at least 180 to make any sense of anything. Then the dots we really can't figure out what were seeing which means the timing machine is going to give you faulty numbers.

For the fun of it try timing the watch in six positions just because I'm curious to see if it makes any difference at all.

Visually how does the amplitude look? Usually on the Chinese machines they have a really hard time measuring low amplitude usually they'll pick out the wrong part of the waveform and give you a much higher amplitude than what the watch is actually doing. So are you actually seeing a low amplitude do you really have a low amplitude?

 

[rogart63]

21 hours ago, Cad101 said:

Its a regular fault thats for sure have you checked the escape wheel for any signs of damage or oil

Hasn't checked anything yet. I hesitate to take it apart. I have to take every little screw and bridge apart to get to the escape? Did i say i hate this movement The movement god forgot . Then every parts and pivot is so delicate.  I think i have put just this watch apart 10 times. 

Haven't had any time to check it until just recently. It was running spot on. But decided to wind it a little. Now it's running bad again.  For a while and then goes down and runs okay again. 

[jdm]

43 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

Hasn't checked anything yet. I hesitate to take it apart. I have to take every little screw and bridge apart to get to the escape? Did i say i hate this movement The movement god forgot . Then every parts and pivot is so delicate.  I think i have put just this watch apart 10 times. 

Haven't had any time to check it until just recently. It was running spot on. But decided to wind it a little. Now it's running bad again.  For a while and then goes down and runs okay again. 

I feel your pain. I have a 4205 needing a service that I'm postponing indefinitely because I know the outcome will not be good.

Perhaps give a last effort like blowing air, then if it bothers you to much, sell it as it is, no returns. You will have gained the manual skills working on ladies movement, FIY there are so called watchmakers that do no accept work on these movements.

[Folkvisor]

Basically, some machines - of any size - are just crap and not worth the trouble.