Finally ready to do some proper pegging

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/30/2024 at 11:13 PM, Jon said:

They're fine as long as the are lubricated properly and often, but they're not

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That would be the case with all automatics . Like mentioned earlier because its Rolex folk seem to think the quality is there so it doesn’t need the same amount of maintenance.  If you drove a Rolls Royce would you not have it serviced

[mikepilk]

  On 8/30/2024 at 11:13 PM, Jon said:

How did you find it to service? What was the movement?

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It was a cal 2230 from a ladies watch. The rotor pivot had snapped off where it's riveted on, so I had to find a replacement. 

It was very straightforward to service - with online info when I needed it,  e.g. on how to properly lubricate the reverser wheels. The only thing I was worried about was regulating. On a small movement fiddling with the balance weights I could break a pivot. I bought a Microstella tool, but in the end didn't need it. It was (and still is) the only watch I've serviced which didn't need any regulating. The timegrapher was flat in all positions. Amazing. 

Beautifully made, but I still don't want one  

[JohnR725]

  On 8/30/2024 at 10:08 PM, VWatchie said:

I get the impression some Rolex owners believe their watches are indestructible. Isn't that the general reputation of this brand? They run it until it stops ticking and then take it in for a service 

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I think what the problem here is let's call Rolex the Timex of high grade watches. In other words if somebody was asked what is a high grade watch it's the most likely name that they would know versus all the hundreds or thousands of other high-end or any other watch for that matter.

Plus of course Rolex sells a heck of a lot of Rolex watches so it's a nice big target.

Then I like to tell the story that I've seen on Rolex discussion groups where they're very happy that they basically run their watch until it disintegrates although they don't grasp that aspect because I don't want to pay the greedy watchmaker. But I think it's basically any automatic watch that clueless customers that don't want to pay the greedy watchmaker will run them typically into the ground.

So I don't think it's necessarily Rolex alone it's just that it's a really big target for us to make fun of. Plus we can find all kinds of examples of watches that have been ground to dust which happen to be Rolex.

[VWatchie]

  On 8/30/2024 at 11:13 PM, Jon said:

How did you find it to service? What was the movement?

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As I'm currently working on a calibre 3135 I'd be very interested as well. There's always something to learn.

The only challenge so far from a handling point of view is the very powerful spring for the cam yoke. I never saw a spring like that in any other wristwatch movement. Also new to me is how incredibly well-made and beautiful the parts are. In addition, the movement is beautifully and tastefully decorated. It's a shame that the owners don't get to enjoy seeing this beautiful movement in everyday life.

@mikepilk Also, I would assume you replaced the rotor axle. Any particular tips? I got plenty of advice in my thread about the movement but still interesting!

  On 8/31/2024 at 9:30 AM, JohnR725 said:

But I think it's basically any automatic watch that clueless customers that don't want to pay the greedy watchmaker will run them typically into the ground.

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I think many people don't even realise that there is a highly sophisticated and complicated machine on the inside of their status jewellery. Having paid £10,000, they probably expect the jewellery to keep ticking forever.

[mikepilk]

  On 8/31/2024 at 9:36 AM, VWatchie said:

Also, I would assume you replaced the rotor axle. Any particular tips? I got plenty of advice in my thread about the movement but still interesting!

 

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The rivet was broken, I had to replace the completer rotor. Fortunately I found a second hand part.

[JeffYork]

I have stopped buying pegwood.  I make my own.  I have several large French Lilacs in my yard, and the pruned and dried branches and twigs once liberated from their bark make great pegwood shafts.  The wood is hard and dense, and sharpens down to a very fine point.  I practiced on old donor movements to ensure that it does not scratch the finishes or damages the jewels.  I then run the pegged movement pieces through my cleaner after getting the larger pegwood remnants off with Rodico or a blower.

[HectorLooi]

I just learned the alternative meaning of "pegging". 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 11/1/2024 at 5:10 AM, HectorLooi said:

I just learned the alternative meaning of "pegging". 

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 how was it ? , go have a cuppa and a sit down to recover....on second thoughts...maybe dont sit down.

I'm actually crying with laughter H , you've just made my day

[HectorLooi]

I wonder if @suomaf knows the meaning...

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 11/1/2024 at 9:11 AM, HectorLooi said:

I wonder if @suomaf knows the meaning...

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Ask his missus

And I suggest you dont offer to make the bed up again when your wife is in H

[RichardHarris123]

As funny as it is, maybe it's time to get back on track. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 11/1/2024 at 9:29 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

As funny as it is, maybe it's time to get back on track. 

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Hallelujah 

I think the topic of pegwood was lost long ago here Rich, HectorLooi just revived it in the most hilarious manner

[Jon]

  On 9/25/2024 at 11:27 AM, JeffYork said:

I have stopped buying pegwood.  I make my own.  I have several large French Lilacs in my yard,

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I like that! As long as the composition of the stick can allow whittling it down to a fine point, job done. Also, pegwood isn't cheap for what it is.

I've harvested my own pith before from an elder bush/tree that grows near me. It depends when in the year it is picked to how spongy it is. Picking it in the spring and summer yields the best results. Now that stuff certainly isn't cheap.

I'm always amazed at how many products are aimed at 'watchmakers' with the view that we must be totally inept to not make it ourselves. Sometimes it is just easier to buy a tool, but sometimes making one is so much better. Hand levers... buy them, seriously? I know some watch enthusiasts haven't the skillset (yet!) to fabricate tools and parts and a lot of my students haven't picked up a file since they were last in school, but the look on their faces when their tool excels the bought version. Classic!

Here's some pics of the technicians from Mr. Jones Watches who made their hand levers last year. A very talented crew and a credit to Crispin Jones.

I am careful how I use the word 'Pegging' because of the connotations, but also I once told a student to 'peg-out' the jewels holes and when I came back around to his workbench, he had pushed all the jewels out from the bridges and mainplate and had them in a neat little pile! When I told him that wasn't what I meant, he said 'That's no problem, I'll push them all back in again using the pegwood.' Simple!

Edited November 1, 2024 by Jon

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 11/1/2024 at 11:29 AM, Jon said:

 

I've harvested my own pith before from an elder bush/tree that grows near me. It depends when in the year it is picked to how spongy it is. Picking it in the spring and summer yields the best results. Now that stuff certainly isn't cheap.

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I have an Elderberry growing in my garden, you need quite thick branches to get pith over 1/2  in diameter. 

  On 11/1/2024 at 11:29 AM, Jon said:

I like that! As long as the composition of the stick can allow whittling it down to a fine point, job done. Also, pegwood isn't cheap for what it is.

I've harvested my own pith before from an elder bush/tree that grows near me. It depends when in the year it is picked to how spongy it is. Picking it in the spring and summer yields the best results. Now that stuff certainly isn't cheap.

I'm always amazed at how many products are aimed at 'watchmakers' with the view that we must be totally inept to not make it ourselves. Sometimes it is just easier to buy a tool, but sometimes making one is so much better. Hand levers... buy them, seriously? I know some watch enthusiasts haven't the skillset (yet!) to fabricate tools and parts and a lot of my students haven't picked up a file since they were last in school, but the look on their faces when their tool excels the bought version. Classic!

Here's some pics of the technicians from Mr. Jones Watches who made their hand levers last year. A very talented crew and a credit to Crispin Jones.

I am careful how I use the word 'Pegging' because of the connotations, but also I once told a student to 'peg-out' the jewels holes and when I came back around to his workbench, he had pushed all the jewels out from the bridges and mainplate and had them in a neat little pile! When I told him that wasn't what I meant, he said 'That's no problem, I'll push them all back in again using the pegwood.' Simple!

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The girl at the front looks enthralled with what she has achieved,  the girl behind her.....' yeah right they're not as good as mine '

  On 11/1/2024 at 11:29 AM, Jon said:

I like that! As long as the composition of the stick can allow whittling it down to a fine point, job done. Also, pegwood isn't cheap for what it is.

I've harvested my own pith before from an elder bush/tree that grows near me. It depends when in the year it is picked to how spongy it is. Picking it in the spring and summer yields the best results. Now that stuff certainly isn't cheap.

I'm always amazed at how many products are aimed at 'watchmakers' with the view that we must be totally inept to not make it ourselves. Sometimes it is just easier to buy a tool, but sometimes making one is so much better. Hand levers... buy them, seriously? I know some watch enthusiasts haven't the skillset (yet!) to fabricate tools and parts and a lot of my students haven't picked up a file since they were last in school, but the look on their faces when their tool excels the bought version. Classic!

Here's some pics of the technicians from Mr. Jones Watches who made their hand levers last year. A very talented crew and a credit to Crispin Jones.

I am careful how I use the word 'Pegging' because of the connotations, but also I once told a student to 'peg-out' the jewels holes and when I came back around to his workbench, he had pushed all the jewels out from the bridges and mainplate and had them in a neat little pile! When I told him that wasn't what I meant, he said 'That's no problem, I'll push them all back in again using the pegwood.' Simple!

 

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Great job girls they look fantastic

Edited November 1, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[mbwatch]

I might like to try this. Looks like they clamp steel rods in a vise at a slight incline then file flat against the vise until there's a wafer thin end, anneal & bend, harden & polish?

[Jon]

  On 11/1/2024 at 1:52 PM, mbwatch said:

I might like to try this. Looks like they clamp steel rods in a vise at a slight incline then file flat against the vise until there's a wafer thin end, anneal & bend, harden & polish?

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Yep, that's about it

[mikepilk]

  On 11/1/2024 at 11:29 AM, Jon said:

I like that! As long as the composition of the stick can allow whittling it down to a fine point, job done. Also, pegwood isn't cheap for what it is.

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Not cheap for a few twigs, but even Bergeon pegwood is only about £5 for 20 pieces, which last me ages.

(The levers look great)

Edited November 1, 2024 by mikepilk

[VWatchie]

  On 11/1/2024 at 11:29 AM, Jon said:

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Fantastic! I don't know how to make them, but they look amazing. What is the type of metal/alloy? If/when I visit your workshop, I would really like to have a go at it. I have Horotec hand-levers. They work fine (although expensive), but these look like they could be a lot better. I'd even be interested in buying a pair if you or one of your students would be willing to make me one.

  On 11/1/2024 at 11:29 AM, Jon said:

I am careful how I use the word 'Pegging' because of the connotations

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For those of us who are not native English speakers, I can only guess. Am I right in assuming that it would not be appropriate to explicitly explain what the connotations are?

Edited November 2, 2024 by VWatchie

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 11/1/2024 at 9:58 PM, VWatchie said:

For those of us who are not native English speakers, I can only guess. Am I right in assuming that it would not be appropriate to explicitly explain what the connotations are?

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Haha absolutely not H , even i would ban you from the forum if you said " is it ...................? " if I had the power to do so and I'm as open about  things  as anyone can get . I'm sure a quick google search will answer it for you..........I await you your..... imoji ....lol.

[HectorLooi]

I wonder how many more horological terms that we use on a daily basis have other connotations. 

[nickelsilver]

  On 11/2/2024 at 8:50 AM, HectorLooi said:

I wonder how many more horological terms that we use on a daily basis have other connotations. 

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I remember when I was teaching I had a student who giggled every time I said "cock". He lost it when I told him the pivots in cylinder escapements are called "tampons".

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 11/1/2024 at 9:58 PM, VWatchie said:

Fantastic! I don't know how to make them, but they look amazing. What is the type of metal/alloy? If/when I visit your workshop, I would really like to have a go at it. I have Horia handlevers. They're OK, but these look like they would be a lot better. I'd even be interested in buying a pair if you or one of your students would be willing to make me one.

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You could make this H with very little guidance no problem . Just have a go, if you mess up then make another attempt.  Me thinks you underestimate your ability sometimes.

I bought pegwood from cousins, it was so bitty... i got fed up of having crumbs all over my bench, whitewood toothpicks are better than the stuff i bought. I also use bamboo..i know we discussed once that its silica composition can scratch....brass yes if too heavy handed with it ...so its likely a bit hard for old brass plate bearings......it doesn't damage jewels....I've looked at x100. I remember mention of mdf sticks, I think a hardish tight grained white timber would be a good option......holly, boxwood and yew would be worth experimenting with. I keep a wooden pegging tool permanently dipped in a solvent.....now there's a connotation to think about

[VWatchie]

  On 11/2/2024 at 8:22 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'm sure a quick google search will answer it for you

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I Googled the word pegging, and it came up with all sorts of non-offensive suggestions. However, there was a Reddit page that suggested "mature content" but required logging in to read, and I wasn't interested in logging in. Anyway, see if I can figure it out. Hmm, let's see... We have something that is round, long, and stiff (the peg wood) and insert it into a hole that has previously been lubricated (oil), and then we move around the peg wood until we're done.  No, don't think I can crack it. Maybe when I get older and a bit more mature.

 

[tomh207]

  On 11/1/2024 at 9:58 PM, VWatchie said:

Fantastic! I don't know how to make them, but they look amazing. What is the type of metal/alloy? If/when I visit your workshop, I would really like to have a go at it. I have Horia handlevers. They're OK, but these look like they would be a lot better. I'd even be interested in buying a pair if you or one of your students would be willing to make me one.

For those of us who are not native English speakers, I can only guess. Am I right in assuming that it would not be appropriate to explicitly explain what the connotations are?

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You could download the BHI sample lesson 1 @VWatchie starting page 124 of the pdf is the instructions to make hand levers in lesson format.

they look very similar to the ones @Jon showed that his students made.

 

Tom

[HectorLooi]

  On 11/2/2024 at 10:39 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I keep a wooden pegging tool permanently dipped in a solvent

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And after you clean out the hole with your pegging tool, do you then dip it in lube and peg it a little more?