Starting my journey into watchmaking.

[woody24]

Hello! 

Always been fascinated with watches. My mom bought me a auction lot back when I was 10 that came with screwdrivers and a few broken watches. Loved tinkering with them, but never really had a goal. Just liked seeing all the parts, and never understood that I could have probably fixed them. Or attempted. 

Now, I've gotten the bug and have been looking at old vintage watches to wear for my upcoming wedding. Started watching teardown videos, and came across this channel. 

Now I'm in search of something I can fix and trying to figure out the minimum set of tools I'd need to get started. 

Looking forward to this!

[dadistic]

Welcome, good luck, and congrats on your pending nuptials!

[watchweasol]

Hello and welcome to the forum, I have attached some reading for you.  If you are serious in getting into this facinating hobby have a look at Marks watchfix site regarding online courses they will give you a good grounding.  Congrats on the forhcoming wedding,  watch repairs will take a back seat for now, maybe.   all the best.            cheers

1612608791_ToolsfortheHobbyist (2) (1).pdf TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome from England 

[grsnovi]

Mark's first 2 self-paced, online courses will take you through the minimal set of tools and a watch teardown and rebuild.

This web page and this seven minute video will help you better understand the guts.

Welcome to the forum!

[woody24]

19 hours ago, grsnovi said:

Mark's first 2 self-paced, online courses will take you through the minimal set of tools and a watch teardown and rebuild.

This web page and this seven minute video will help you better understand the guts.

Welcome to the forum!

Those links are amazing! Love the interactive website. The video's I've watched I've picked up how a watch actually works, but still left some questions. Thanks! Kinda excited to try my first one. Only real concern I have still is where to oil, and making sure I put the pieces back in the right order with the proper screw. 

[grsnovi]

8 minutes ago, woody24 said:

Only real concern I have still is where to oil, and making sure I put the pieces back in the right order with the proper screw. 

You might watch a few of this guy's YT videos. He covers lubrication in his 9th lesson. I think he also has suggestions on how to keep track of what goes where. It is often suggested to use your phone to take photos as you remove things and put things into something like an ice cube tray and remember the sequence. Keep the screws for the bridges with the bridge. Keep the screws for springs with the spring. Keep the screws for the ratchet wheel with the ratchet wheel, etc...

You might consider starting with a new, untouched Seagull ST36 that you know will work when you're done with it. At 30 bucks it's a good way to start that avoids all of the angst of where to get parts (as long as you are careful when you take the movement apart and put it back together).

Edited July 15, 2022 by grsnovi
added Seagull link

[woody24]

Yeah, was thinking of that exact same thing about buying a cheap clone to take apart and put together!

Was looking at ultrasonic cleaners, and baskets, and just figured, unless I can keep it all separate, some of it will have to mix with other parts and that was my concern. I actually have a silicon matte that has about 100 little tiny divisions for tiny screws that I use for my electronic projects. I'd be able to keep everything sorted by order with that, but if the parts need a bath, that'd mess it all up.

thought about the phone photo thing too, since I do that for electronics. But sometimes I forget to take a photo of a step, or maybe the photo was at a weird angle and can't see something. So I think the best option would be to try and get as familiar with it before digging in. Then the photos will probably help more.

Thanks again!

[watchweasol]

Hi  If and when the parts need cleaning there are small inexpensiv mesh baskets which keep the parts separate, If you clean in small batches carefully isolating each one when done you should be ok.    cheers

[jdm]

24 minutes ago, woody24 said:

Was looking at ultrasonic cleaners, and baskets, and just figured, unless I can keep it all separate, some of it will have to mix with other parts and that was my concern

For a professional everything that makes work faster and easier is a good thing.

But a beginner or hobbyst should not put himself in a position where he depends from that as he can't tell one part from another. Divsions, pictures, etc are all good things but don't let move away the main goal: to learn what each part does, why it looks like it does, and if two parts or screws superficially look like each other, being able to tell the difference and its reason.

In other words, there is a big difference between doing something by following a script, and doing it by fully understanding what is what. The latter approach is the most important asset, and will be with one for all his life.

Edited July 15, 2022 by jdm

[Nucejoe]

Hello and welcome to WRT forum.

 I recommend repeatedly  disassemble / reassembling  a scrap movement , by the fifth try, you have discovered  answers to some of your questions and have gained the confidence which can't otherwise be gained, No big deal either  if a part gets ruined as you practice. 

Choose a base movement (that is one with no complication). This scrap movement will also be your material house for spare parts to save $ and £, shipping expenses and choose a same caliber that is in the watch you like to fix and wear. 

 There are good reasons why Mark Lovick has chosen clone ST36, I think  he doesn't want his students spend days or weeks  hunting a movement, ST36 is readily available, its new, inexpensive... so on,  but its not the quality Swiss movement you would want on your wrist. 

Any hand wind  Swiss ETA or AS beats clone ST 36.

Regs

 

 

[kd8tzc]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:22 PM, jdm said:

But a beginner or hobbyst should not put himself in a position where he depends from that as he can't tell one part from another. Divsions, pictures, etc are all good things but don't let move away the main goal: to learn what each part does, why it looks like it does, and if two parts or screws superficially look like each other, being able to tell the difference and its reason.

@JDM, I know this is an older post, but as someone who is just starting out, I just stumbled upon it and there is some great advice in this series of posts, but I wanted to ask you (and anyone really) about this one thing I quoted.  I know on the S36, and other movements, the upper crown wheel (I believe that is what it is called) has a screw that tightens and loosens backwards from normal screws.  I know some manufactures will mark the screw head differently to help identify that with this screw, but what do you all do when you don't have a screw like that?  Meaning, you are disassembling the watch, you take this screw off, how do you differentiate it from the other screws on those gears that look almost identical?  Just looking for some best practices that you more experienced and pros use to make sure you don't mix them up and find out the hard way when you go to put the watch back together.

Also, does anyone have any tips on starting screws in a hole?  Again, I am new, so I have yet to figure out a good technique, but I have been practicing taking the keyless works apart on my S36.  One of the things I am really struggling at (I can do it, it just takes me 15+ minutes it seems) is getting s small screw to sit nicely in the hole it will go in, and then start the screw without knocking the screw over on its side and having to start all over again.  I've watched a number of videos of How to things, but I have not seen anything on how to do this. 

Currently, I will try and place the screw with my tweezers with my left hand.  I make sure the base of the screw (the part that will engage the hole) is protruding the bottom of the tweezers), and gently place it on the hole.  I then try and place the blade of the screwdriver into the slot on the screw, but most of the time I knock the dumb thing over.

Anyhow, any help with these very basic and dumb questions would help.

[watchweasol]

There is no magic Iam afraid it just practise, after 40 years at it I can still knock the screw out.  Starting a screw. Just turn it the opposite way and you will feel a click as it engages with the thread then turn the screw normally. On the ratchet and crown wheel 

screws the left hand threaded one has three slots, as you noticed sone have none in that case try the left hand turn first carefully if no go try the right hand again carefully. You should feel a little give but be very careful to easy the break the screw, then you have another problem.

[RickTock]

I'm on a similar learning journey as @woody24. I waited a year or so to make sure I really enjoyed horology, and then dedicated a space in my home for watch work.

This included purchasing a height-adjustable desk (more of a table really) for my work bench, which I am enjoying immensely. My whole body feel better without the unnecessary bending/strain. And properly supported, my hands are much steadier. I can now spend quite a bit more time learning fiddly tasks (like installing shock jewel springs) without pausing for a stretch or worse (letting fatigue get the best of me causing parts to ping off into the ether).

Cheers!

[grsnovi]

2 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

what do you all do when you don't have a screw like that?  Meaning, you are disassembling the watch, you take this screw off, how do you differentiate it from the other screws on those gears that look almost identical?

One technique is to take photographs as you disassemble and then segregate like with like when you wash.

There usually aren't too many different screw types - less than 6 I'd guess. I've seen individuals who have arranged them on the bench thread-side up (sitting on their heads) in groups. Where you may run into confusion is with the small ones that hold the various springs.

As far as starting screws - you just need to practice. Once you have the screw sitting in the piece to be fastened, you might try fiddling with the head a little to see if you can get the threaded portion to catch on the tap threads in part beneath before you attack with your screwdriver.

[oldhippy]

Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum.

We all look forward to your contributions and continued involvement. 

 

Sorry I'm late with my welcome.

[GuyMontag]

3 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

 Meaning, you are disassembling the watch, you take this screw off, how do you differentiate it from the other screws on those gears that look almost identical?  Just looking for some best practices that you more experienced and pros use to make sure you don't mix them up and find out the hard way when you go to put the watch back together.

 

When disassembling I put the screw(s) next to it's part and if it's the first time I've worked on a movement I've started taking a picture of the screws and parts together, like this for an AS 1916 (the train bridge screws on this one were not totally correct):

 

Then when I put the parts in the cleaning baskets I make sure to keep similar looking ones in a different basket and make a note and the note I add to my own service sheet that I make for the movement which includes what order to put the parts back in and what oil is used where. So for this movement my baskets looked like:

[jdm]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:14 PM, kd8tzc said:

)has a screw that tightens and loosens backwards from normal screws.

Called a left, (threaded) screw. 

On 3/14/2023 at 10:14 PM, kd8tzc said:

but what do you all do when you don't have a screw like that?

Only few, 'cheap' Swiss manufacturers did not triple slot left screws. But the head is anyways larger or somehow different from the others. Wearing an eye piece one can tell if a thread is left or right looking which direction the start crest points to. 

 

On 3/14/2023 at 10:14 PM, kd8tzc said:

But most of the time I knock the dumb thing over.

That's because most likely the driver isn't dressed properly and bottoms out in the slot. Check relevant thread about that. 

[kd8tzc]

3 hours ago, jdm said:

On 3/14/2023 at 11:14 AM, kd8tzc said:

But most of the time I knock the dumb thing over.

That's because most likely the driver isn't dressed properly and bottoms out in the slot. Check relevant thread about that. 

Thanks JDN... could be, but these are brand new Bergeon screwdrivers and I wouldn't think they would need to be dressed.  I will check them today though. 

Over the past couple of days though I have been practicing and developed a technique that seems to be working for me.

With my left hand, I pick up the screw in the tweezers and make sure the treads are exposed a bit from the bottom of the tweezers.  I then, get it close to where it goes in the watch, and then place the screwdriver into the slot of the screw driver.  The screw is still not in the hole at this time.  I then lower the tweezers,screw and screwdriver so the screw sits in the hole, and then start to screw it in.  I am still holding the screw lightly with the tweezers at this point until I feel it take hold into the hole.  For me, this seems to work well and I can get the screw started fairly quickly vs what I was doing in the past.  Not sure if this is all good form, but for me, it works.

[tomh207]

Even brand new shiny Bergeon or horotec screwdrivers need to be dressed to properly fit each screw. You can find yourself dressing screwdrivers to fit several times a day depending on what watches you are working on.

 

Tom

[jdm]

1 hour ago, tomh207 said:

Even brand new shiny Bergeon or horotec screwdrivers need to be dressed to properly fit each screw.

Correct. It's the person and his skills that does the job, not the robber price big brand tools, even more unnecessary for a beginner.
The 'deal' type, still of top quality with an accessible price are mentione dall over the place in the screwdrovers topic.

 

1 hour ago, tomh207 said:

You can find yourself dressing screwdrivers to fit several times a day depending on what watches you are working on.

I strongly recommend to have at least two sets, thin and wider tips to work on Swiss and Japanese respectively - the set for Japanese doesn't have to be large, 3 or 4 sizes the most.
That will save a lot of time and wear and is a wise small investment.

1 hour ago, kd8tzc said:

With my left hand, I pick up the screw in the tweezers and make sure the treads are exposed a bit from the bottom of the tweezers. 

Keeping the screw in the tweezers It's unnecessary gimmicks. It's quite rare that one needs to keep the screw in the tweezers. As long the screw is not slant too much a small touch of correctly dressed  driver oriented to the slot will place it upright. Some screws like Swiss one shave a slightly tapered pin that further eases the process.

Using the right technique for any task is not a matter of form. It's simply the quickest, easiest and safest way to do a task as found by some bazillion of people doing it for centuries before us.