Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I am gearing up to service and clean my Grandfather's watch ... it was left to me in the late 1970s after he died and has been in a drawer pretty much ever since.

I don't know the date (the movement is a P 320) it has a shock setting so I assume 1950s/60s?.

I have just removed the expanding metal strap (pictured next to it) which interestingly is Excalibur and is marked 'Patent Pending'. I had to gently open up the end brackets as to my surprise the watch doesn't have spring bars but rather the bars are of a piece with the case? The case appears to be 9ct gold.

Was this common back in the day? What sort of strap options do you have with this sort of case? I find it hard to believe that the excalibur strap would have been original to the watch?

Any thoughts?

IMG_0210.thumb.jpg.3ec37f5ba890fbb5c1b6724452495caf.jpg

Edited by LeCorbusier
watch movement added
Posted (edited)

What a coincidence. I have only recently serviced an Avia watch pretty much identical to this! 

This too had fixed bars on a 9ct case. It is hallmarked on the inside of the case if you want to pinpoint a year. The one I dealt with was dated to 1959 (but had a FHF movement).

Owner has had the watch since new and it has always had a strap; dark brown.

Search for open ended strap if you want to follow that route.

 

Edited by WatchMaker
  • Thanks 1
Posted

I would fit a leather strap as a metal one would eat into the gold. There are leather straps designed for non removable springbars which have metal hidden in the leather at the ends which you fold over the spring bars. There are also some with some metal prongs that you fold over to retain the folded leather piece. The choice is limited compared to normal straps but at least they are available!

Lovely watch and all the more valuable because of the family history!

Anilv

  • Thanks 1
Posted
13 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

What a coincidence. I have only recently serviced an Avia watch pretty much identical to this! 

This too had fixed bars on a 9ct case. It is hallmarked on the inside of the case if you want to pinpoint a year. The one I dealt with was dated to 1959 (but had a FHF movement).

Owner has had the watch since new and it has always had a strap; dark brown.

Search for open ended strap if you want to follow that route.

 

Thats fascinating. I have searched for a while now and not come across a match before. Interesting its a different movement?

Posted

Hi again @LeCorbusier

Avia seems to have been a popular make in the 50s/60s. Do a google Images search on avia watch for instance. Actually more specifically for your watch do an Images search for avia de luxe

There were numerous watch companies before the 'quartz crisis' of the 1970s put a lot of them out of business. Such companies bought in movements from movement manufacturers; presumably whatever manufacturer gave them a competitive deal for any next planned batch of watches at the time. It's therefore quite typical to see movements from different manufactures in watches from the same watch company.

  • Thanks 1
Posted

 Many brands used Peseux movements, they are easy to work on and  mostly outlasted the case, real good pinion leaves specially. 

Dr ranfft lists the family Peseux 320 belongs to, which should help in case your watch needs a new part. 

 

  • Thanks 1
Posted

Thanks. Interestingly I recently bought a 'non-working' Avia 10006 with a Peseux 320, serviced and cleaned it and managed to get it running again ... so fortuitously I have already had a practice. I had to source a new winding stem - but that was relatively easy. It has to my eye cleaned up very nicely and keeps remarkably good time (5-6 secs a day). Its not shock protected so presumably a 50s watch?

I'm very new to all of this, but Avia's seem to be very good value for money to me as the movements seem good quality workhorses? I got my 10006 for £12.50 and seem to have ended up with a very nice watch. To my mind way undervalued for the quality of engineering involved! I am waiting for a new Crystal and strap ... might post a before and after in due course.

Posted
47 minutes ago, LeCorbusier said:

 To my mind way undervalued for the quality of engineering involved! I am waiting for a new Crystal and strap ... might post a before and after in due course.

 I agree, these were/ are good workhorse and undervalued as you say. I think some Famous brands did make high grade Peseux movements.

 This crystal looks undamaged you can polish it, check this vid.

Saves you a few bucks.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 This crystal looks undamaged you can polish it, check this vid.

 

The Crystal on my Grandfathers watch is I believe just slightly scratched - the one on the 10006 has a crack in it. Thanks for the link. 👍

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I need some advice on a cannon pinion. I am trying to refit on an Avia I have cleaned and adjusted. The pinion won't click down into place. If I push it on with the tweezers it meshes with the minute wheel but when I turn the hands it moves a little and then rides up over the minute wheel and stops turning. If I push down more firmly it becomes stiff ... stops the balance initially when I turn the hands, then loosens and climbs the minute wheel again. It doesn't appear to be sitting down properly at the base.

it is a Peseux 7040 movement

Tim

 

Edited by LeCorbusier
Posted

Hi Can you post a close up of the post/center wheel and the cannon pinion. From what you describe its not seating properly.  When you removed it during the dismantling proceedure was it easy to remove or hard.

  • Thanks 1
Posted

I used a puller and it came off fine, unfortunately I didn't check to see if it was loose. Will post a picture when I can get back to the work bench.

Posted (edited)

There appear to be two canon pinions available for this movement - 2.15mm and 2.40mm - I vaguely wondered if it was the wrong one? - how would I tell?

Edited by LeCorbusier
Posted

Hi  The canon pinion looks to have the dint in the side which tightens the pinion so why it should be over tight if its the origional.  as far as diferences go I take it refers to the height. The only wat to tell is to measure the height of the one you have with a vernier or Micrometer.  Did the watch work and hand set before the clean etc.    From the picture of the canon pinion on the post it has not seated correcty, there is usualy a decernable click as it is pushed down. do not over force the canon when fitting.

  • Thanks 1
Posted (edited)

It won't seat if I press down and there is no click. I pressed quite hard and effectively it tightened such that when the winding stem engaged it was stiff and initially stopped the balance ... then immediately loosened and climbed the minute wheel .... I didn't want to push hard again!

It measures 2.15 ... so I wonder if it is too short for the centre wheel. I have a 2.40 on order so we will see.

Edited by LeCorbusier
Posted

Ok, did the watch work ok before being cleaned etc, were you abe to set the hands before.   Its always a good idea to check all functions of a watch before working on it t even if its stopped ,  check the balance oscillation and its pivots , .the hand set and keyless work,   that  way you know if it develops a fault after working on it you can check and say its one you have introduced .  Will be interested to know what result you get with the new canon pinion,  One can always broach the original but its a very delicate operation in not taking too much metal out of it and getting the hand drive correct.

  • Thanks 1
Posted (edited)

The watch was fully wound but didn't run .... the hairspring was in a poor state and it took a bit of work getting it back true again. Unfortunately I didn't fully test the hands (silly mistake!) but I did align them to ease removal .... so I didn't anticipate there being a problem ..... but the canon pinion definitely doesn't seat and all I have done is remove it, clean it in horosolve and replace.

The pinion has a closed end, so how would you broach it?1.thumb.jpg.c12626f5b7a6014cf8438e75255e1624.jpg

Edited by LeCorbusier
Posted

Hi  you could use a small drill bit in a pin vice, all you are doing is to reduce the tension of the crimped area to allow fitting, its a job which takes care. Like one slight turn and try the fit and so on a little at a time.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
55 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

 all you are doing is to reduce the tension of the crimped area to allow fitting, 

Assuming the canon pinion is the correct one and it's no bottoming out on the pivot ... will report back once the new pinion arrives 👍

Posted

Ok,

So the new canon pinion arrived this morning and this one won't seat in the same way as the original. I can't see anything wrong with the centre wheel shaft in terms of condition. Does this suggest that the centre wheel might not be correct?

Very confused by this!

 

Posted

The pivot of your center wheel where the cannon pinion fits looks totally wrong. It should have a distinct slope going to a shoulder along the pivot, this is where the dent in the cannon pinion fits. The slope is to make sure the cannon pinion tends to push itself down when setting the time, rather than ride up. The pic is a typical normal center pivot/ shaft. I'm 100% certain a Peseux would look like the pic.

center wheel upper pivot.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • One of the problems with trying to Photograph Phils things are that his enjoyment was building these things so they tended to E falls on what will see if I can find some earlier pictures or any pictures I wasn't even sure because I was looking for that specific picture for somebody else and even it got the last version and that would have been the last version. You will note that he put the indexing on something that he could unscrew it or whatever and it can slide back out of the way so the rest of the lathe can be used as a lathe. With the lathe cut are actually coming down from the top I was there once where he demonstrated how to cut a pivot with the setup it was really beautiful. Older set up if I remember it's not a worm gear assembly in the thing in between the stepping motor and the holding block I believe this particular one was like a 100 to 1 gear ratio. Earlier version with watchmaker's lathe. Even looks like he is the watchmakers bed and then switch to something he made. Then I do have other pictures and things of the rotary stage in use. In the raw so if you tube videos here is an example of one were somebody's mounting a three jaw chuck. At one time there were available on eBay they were not cheap but if you're patient like I was I found one cheap on eBay. After you watch the video it look at his other videos he is a whole bunch of other examples of the same rotary stage. That I do know there are other pictures examples and possibly videos you just have to track them down. One of the minor issues of finding this particular tech sheet for the unit is I believe it was a custom manufacturer and the company change their name but I remember the new name here's a link to the company https://www.ondrivesus.com/rino-mechanical-components                
    • Escapement adjusting always interesting and depending upon the reference always confusing. Okay maybe it's not always confusing but it does lead to confusion. I have a PDF below it's actually a whole bunch of separate stuff including a hand out that came from a lecture that's on you tube. Then from that we get this image Consequences of doing things especially if you do things out of order or you do things for the wrong reason. Oh and even if the watches working I made the mistake one so showing my boss how tweaking the banking pins on a full plate on the timing machine made the amplitude get better and now he thinks that's what they're for and I don't think a fully grasped exactly what horn clearance means. Consequence of doing things. Notice what it says about opening and closing the banking pins and total lock? So yes I've had that on a full plate where it won't unlock at all and that's the banking pins or a combination of things basically. So banking pins unfortunately get moved. One of the ways to tell if it's been moved is the look straight down at the end of the fork with the balance wheel removed. Power on the fork push at the one side look at it push it to the other side also look at it and compare anything with the center reference the balance jewel and see if both sides of the same. No guarantee after the same there in the right place but at least are the same typically when people play with things one side will be way off from the other because they had no idea what they were doing at all because of course it's a full plate and you really have to paying attention and even then there's still hard to do. Then the other thing that comes up like it shows below is people often adjust the banking pins to do all those other things as opposed to horn clearance which is all that it's therefore and maybe bonus Guard pin clearance although you're supposed to deal with the guard pin is a separate thing like single roller gets bent in Or out or sometimes physically gets moved in and out. Some full plates older escapement's typically pallet forks held together with screws and you can actually unscrew and move the entire assembly in Or out more complications to deal with.     Escapement handout wostep nscc.pdf
    • If he was much younger and some sort of sports player it wouldn't be a problem. They would be in there and doing surgery and he'd be back on the field in no time. Unfortunately when you get older little things are bad and big things can be really bad so not good at all.
    • Where I work everything incoming watches whatever detailed descriptions are taken entered into a computer program and photograph of each item. Then ideally although it depends on who's doing the paperwork detailed descriptions can be quite good other times there lacking. Like I really like it with pocket watches if they would record the serial number it avoids confusion later on. Then when watch repairs are completed that is also entered in. It's one of the amusements I learned when I was in school instructor had a shop and commented about the important aspect of keeping detailed records of repairs. Because oftentimes a customer who got a new crystal will come back later on when the watch doesn't work and expect you to fix the entire watch for free. Then you can remind them that they just got a crystal. Strangely enough that keeps coming up or occasionally comes up where I work now. One of the problems of using the service marks on the case is that in the case of pocket watches oftentimes that's not the original case. Then case marks? What I was doing warranty work for a company I used to describe a code number in the back of the case and it would tell me the next time I see the watch that basically what I did I made no attempt at keeping track of customers because we had literally thousands of them I think they sold 30,000 of these watches and they would come back by the hundreds because they had a lifetime warranty. Yes that's a story all of itself but I would put a code number that would reference what was done to the watch the last time and think I had a date in there somehow so it did tell a story if you knew the code. Another shop I once worked out the number would reference the page in the book. So other than knowing we had been in there you would have no idea what happened because you have to go look at the page in the book to see what happened. Then the problem of how you examine a watch you should examine the watch in detail every single time to avoid complications. Although on vintage watches and this is a of amusement I have at work when people ask something and I say of the watches done when it leaves. This is because on vintage oftentimes problems won't show up until the watches much farther into the repair like it's now running and you discover things that you can't discover before because it wasn't running to discover them that also become sometimes difficult to have exact rigid prices are estimates of repairs or in the case of a pocket watch you may not find out if a casing problem to later on when you case it up in the watches running. I was just thinking for all those people that would like to leave a mark maybe you should learn to do what some of the past watchmakers did? Leave a mark but leave it in such a way that no one will ever find it? Typically not done for repair purposes but done for other reasons like identifying it's legit. I have a friend with a Gruen watch and one of the Roman numbers the bottom line that just looks like a line under extreme magnification actually says Gruen watch company or something equivalent. So here's a link showing how to mark your watch without being seen although that's not the actual title. So if you can learn micro engraving you can engrave the watch someplace probably just about any place you just have to remember where you put it. https://cnaluxury.channelnewsasia.com/obsessions/how-to-prove-if-watches-are-authentic-secret-signatures-182516  
    • I have acquired a Citizen Leopard 36000 watch. My reason for purchasing it was my desire to own a timepiece with a 36,000 BPH movement, and the price was reasonable. Another motivating factor was gaining hands-on experience with the mechanism. The watch is in good condition, but I intend to fully disassemble it for maintenance. First and foremost, if anyone has prior experience with this particular model, I would greatly appreciate their insights. I do not have access to Citizen’s specialized lubricants and will need to use the ones available to me, such as 9010, 8000, and 8300 grease. Additionally, I do not possess the appropriate oil for the pallet jewels and will only be able to clean them.
×
×
  • Create New...