Screw fused

[JS335]

I’m working on a vintage wittnauer movement.  The screw appears to be fused to the ratchet wheel.  When I turn the screw the wheel turns as well.

I’ve tried oil and WD40 with no luck.  I plan on trying liquid wrench.  Does anyone have any ideas or advice?  Thanks in advance  

[Marc]

Are you turning the screw the right way?

Ratchet wheel screws can be left or right handed, and not all manufacturers are considerate enough to mark their left handed screws so that you know which way to turn it. You may have to try some careful experimentation to work it out.

On the other hand if you can identify the movement, and maybe post some pics, somebody here may have already worked it out on another watch and can pass that info on.

[watchweasol]

Hi You quite often find the screw has three slots in the top denoting a left hand thread just trys a little pressure for the LH thread but do not over do it otherwise the screw head will come off leavibg you with abroken screw to remove..   Whats the movement maker and caliber of the movement. do you hav a tech sheet to refer to? as it mat tell you un that.

[JS335]

Thanks so much for the replies. Here is a picture of the movement the way it was when I started at a picture of its current state. You can see there is corrosion around the screw in question

I tried turning it in the other direction but I got the same result.

[JS335]

Just realized I posted this in the wrong section.  Sorry about that.

[Marc]

OK, looks like a wittnauer 11BG which is an AS1201 by another name.

I don't have one of those but a quick check on Borel shows that it shares its ratchet wheel screw with a number of other calibers, including an FEF290, which I do have.

I have just checked and the FEF290 is a right handed ratchet wheel screw, so anti-clockwise to undo it.

If it still won't budge then a little heat may help.

[JS335]

9 minutes ago, Marc said:

OK, looks like a wittnauer 11BG which is an AS1201 by another name.

I don't have one of those but a quick check on Borel shows that it shares its ratchet wheel screw with a number of other calibers, including an FEF290, which I do have.

I have just checked and the FEF290 is a right handed ratchet wheel screw, so anti-clockwise to undo it.

If it still won't budge then a little heat may help.

Great, I'll try that.  Thanks Marc.

 

[Nucejoe]

 Give it a 48hrs soak in coca cola, thereupon rinse under tap water, unsrcew immediately after. 

Use of heat is Ok in boiling water then immediately drop in coldwater, no direct flame on the parts. 

Good luck

[HectorLooi]

Are you using anything to wedge the ratchet wheel to stop it from turning?

I would dab a drop of WD40 onto the screw and heat it with the tip of a soldering iron. Don't go spraying the stuff inside your watch. It can sometimes ruin your dial.

[jdm]

14 hours ago, Marc said:

I have just checked and the FEF290 is a right handed ratchet wheel screw, so anti-clockwise to undo it.

The search result appears conclusive but I have seen now enough mov.ts where the ratchet wheel screw is left handed, and with a single slot. The reason, I believe, is that saved one tool switch operation at manufacturing, when the thread is as the crown wheel.

So after applying penetrating oil and bit of heat, which won't hurt anyway, I suggest the OP to try a gente twist clockwise also.

[watchweasol]

Likewise jdm single slotted ones are out there , agree with the penetrating oil soak and the heat, use the broad tip of a soldering iron as advised by Hector. But be gentle cranking the screw.

[JS335]

Thank you all for the great advice. I have a heating gun so I tried applying some heat last night but I was a little timid about it. I’ll try the WD-40 with heat. I’ll also try a clockwise turn  

i’ve been using Pegwood to hold the ratchet wheel still while attempting to turn the screw.  
 

if I attempt soaking it in Coca-Cola, is that safe to put the full remaining movement in there?

[Nucejoe]

30 minutes ago, JS335 said:

If I attempt soaking it in Coca-Cola, is that safe to put the full remaining movement in there?

Yes that will be fine. 

 Keeping the ratchet wheel from turning with your thumb is alright , as you will be cleaning all pieces afterwards. 

 

 

[Plato]

13 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Yes that will be fine. 

 Keeping the ratchet wheel from turning with your thumb is alright , as you will be cleaning all pieces afterwards. 

 

 

How is it safe to put a watch movement in Coca-Cola?!

[watchweasol]

A heat gun is a bit it too much i think  If you can keep the heat localised ok that's why we recommend the soldering iron as you can place it on the screw head and the screw gets the heat.   good luck

[Nucejoe]

4 hours ago, Plato said:

How is it safe to put a watch movement in Coca-Cola?!

Refer to the question by OP ,      states;     "the full remaining movement " shown in the second picture which doesn't include shellac nor hairspring.

A good rinse with water is to remove possible suger residue.

Soaking allows Coca Cola to penetrate the thread in barrel arbour as well. 

Regs

 

 

[jdm]

33 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Soaking allows Coca Cola to penetrate the thread in barrel arbour as well. 

Please don't be surprised if someone is doubtful about the use of (un)sugared soda water for loosening watch parts. Maybe it has to do with the fact that is not taught in any school, book, or decent watch repair video.

[Plato]

32 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Refer to the question by OP ,      states;     "the full remaining movement " shown in the second picture which doesn't include shellac nor hairspring.

A good rinse with water is to remove possible suger residue.

Soaking allows Coca Cola to penetrate the thread in barrel arbour as well. 

Regs

 

 

Cheers, I just noticed the second picture with very few remaining parts. Does the Coca-Cola eat into metal or is it used as a lubricant? Wouldn't it just be safer to force the screw head to snap off then remove the threaded part after? 

[jdm]

48 minutes ago, Plato said:

Wouldn't it just be safer to force the screw head to snap off then remove the threaded part after? 

These screws snap only when glued, rusted solid, or force turned in the wrong direction. A broken screw in a barrel is particularly nasty to have, and must be avoided by all means, because unlike others it can't be grabbed at both ends with an extractor.

[Plato]

1 minute ago, jdm said:

A broken screw in a barrel is particularly nasty to have, because unlike others it can't be grabbed at both ends with an extractor.

I hadn't considered that but I was thinking of the left hand spiral drill bit I bought for a similar purpose, although it's too big at 2mm. What about alum, or would that destroy the barrel arbour too? 

I just don't like the thought of dropping any part of a watch into a soft drink... maybe I'm just old fashioned! 

[JS335]

I like the idea of using the soldering iron.  It might just liquify the fused part of the screw enough  I know I’m risking having to replace the ratchet wheel but that might be toast anyway.  
 

I appreciate everyone’s willingness to help  good people here.  I need all the help I can get  

[Nucejoe]

I am pretty sure you gentls be regular  customers once you try Coca Cola as penetrant fluid,  Soak works better than just penetrating oil as it reaches every point where no pentrating oil has gone before. 

[HectorLooi]

3 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

I am pretty sure you gentls be regular  customers once you try Coca Cola as penetrant fluid,  Soak works better than just penetrating oil as it reaches every point where no pentrating oil has gone before. 

Don't let a certain Swiss company get wind of this or they'll bottle it 50ml bottles and charge and arm and leg for it. 

[jdm]

10 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 Soak works better than just penetrating oil as it reaches every point where no pentrating oil has gone before. 

Better to tell the guy below then.

 

[JS335]

And the winner (so far) is................. a 48 hour soak in CocaCola.  This seems to have dissolved the corrosion around the screw just enough to get it to turn.  I was beginning to think it would never come off.  The final test, of course, will be if the movement works after reassembly.  Thanks all.