Longines L817.4 Regulator can not move

[EatPeach]

So this little one here doesn't wanna move... When I try to move it, it's stucked and if I push it a little bit harder, the entire regulator and stud holder move as a complete unit... I can't change the distance between the regulator and the stud... Any idea how to fix it? I hope it's a small issue, I dont have to replace the entire balance cock.

[watchweasol]

Hi   Regulator stuck ?  best to remove the balance and remove the wheel from the cock, then dismantle the shock system and remove the regulator assy. But be sure to remove the balance before working on the cock the pivots break easily.

5337_Longines L817.4 (2).pdf

[EatPeach]

2 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi   Regulator stuck ?  best to remove the balance and remove the wheel from the cock, then dismantle the shock system and remove the regulator assy. But be sure to remove the balance before working on the cock the pivots break easily.

5337_Longines L817.4 (2).pdf 3.46 MB · 0 downloads

Oh that's a lot of job needs to be done. I dont have a stacking tool so I'll give it to my friend to handle it. Thank you!

[watchweasol]

Unfortunatly thats the only way manipulating the regulator in situ is frought with danger(broken Balance pivots) so indeed be cautious.       cheers

[Nucejoe]

What do you need staking set for, weasol means, remove the balance, remove regulator and stud arms to clean, polish, reinstal. You then put the balance back on.

Shock assembly stays in place as you remove, regulator and stud arms.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Nucejoe
reg & stud arms are both springs

[EatPeach]

3 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

What do you need staking set for, weasol means, remove the balance, remove regulator and stud arms to clean, polish, reinstal. You then put the balance back on.

Shock assembly stays in place as you remove, regulator and stud arms.

Ah sorry. I mean I dont have any tool to push the regulator and stud holder back onto the cock. I thought a staking set would get the job done. Anyway, I dont have any relevant tool. And I really havent done this before, best way is to handle it to my experienced friend. I'll find a scrap movement to fiddle it first.

[Marc]

I'm speculating here as I haven't worked on one of these, but maybe it isn't meant to move by just pushing it.

It looks like you have a micro-regulator device which just might be a worm drive arrangement which will effectively lock the regulator arm and the stud mounting together, with the only way to alter the distance between them being to turn the micro-regulator worm gear.

Please excuse the hastily drawn sketch but I'm not in front of my CAD station at the moment.

[EatPeach]

3 minutes ago, Marc said:

I'm speculating here as I haven't worked on one of these, but maybe it isn't meant to move by just pushing it.

It looks like you have a micro-regulator device which just might be a worm drive arrangement which will effectively lock the regulator arm and the stud mounting together, with the only way to alter the distance between them being to turn the micro-regulator worm gear.

Please excuse the hastily drawn sketch but I'm not in front of my CAD station at the moment.

Thanks. I did check this screw but it doesn't seem function like this way. I think all it does is to act as a stopper so you could attach the regulator to the end of the screw, that way you can do minor adjustments

[Nucejoe]

Good eyes @Marc It could be that micro adjustor is at the end of the thread which then practically acts as locked.  To check just unscrew the micro adjustor back to give regulator arm that much freedom to move.

@EatPeach , you just grab the arms with you tweezer and lift, it is a spring so it just snaps off, stud arm first since it is on top of regulator arm, to press back on, put both arms on, press in your tweezers, snaps back in place easier than removal.

[HSL]

Longines sometimes has what's called a python disc regulator, it is a small brass disk kept in place by friction and is moved by a small lever on that brass disc, when you move the screw the regulator moves sligtly back and forth.
Just in case someone is interested I post the same picture as before here..
 

Edited August 19, 2020 by HSL

[Nucejoe]

2 minutes ago, HSL said:

Longines sometimes has what's called a python disc regulator, it is a small brass disk kept in place by friction and is moved by a small lever on that brass disc, when you move the screw the sregulator moves sligtly back and forth.
Just in case someone is interested I post the same picture as before here..
 

Since I am not set to produce pictures as quick and relevent as HSL, I think I start stealing pix from his post.

Thanks to HSL, there you are eatpeach easier than eating a peach.

[EatPeach]

1 hour ago, HSL said:

Longines sometimes has what's called a python disc regulator, it is a small brass disk kept in place by friction and is moved by a small lever on that brass disc, when you move the screw the regulator moves sligtly back and forth.
Just in case someone is interested I post the same picture as before here..
 

Oh Thank you. so in order to move that regulator. The screw is the only way? I disasseble the cock but I didn't see the disc

[Nucejoe]

28 minutes ago, EatPeach said:

Oh Thank you. so in order to move that regulator. The screw is the only way? I disasseble the cock but I didn't see the disc

Note HSL clearly mention, "sometimes" not neccesarily all the times.

Perfectly alright if No disk there, as long as you put back what you took off.

[Nucejoe]

And if you unscrewed the micro adjustor screw couple of turns, you have not needed to remove the reg and stud arms.

[EatPeach]

8 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

And if you unscrewed the micro adjustor screw couple of turns, you have not needed to remove the reg and stud arms.

will try it. Thanks. But I still dont know why it can't be moved in a normal way. Longines has no reason to locked the regulator by the screw. I think it still have some faults. I'll examine it first before replace the regulator and stud holder.

[HSL]

If it is a disc type the disc should be between the regulator arm and the stud support. If it isn’t there your regulator might have been very loose and it was just pushed all the way down. As you see the disk acts like a shim or bushing too.
Anyhow you have to have some kind of similar entrapment moving the regulator when turning the screw.
And keep in mind the micro regulator is just for the final small tweaks the large change (mm) is done by moving the regulator arm in a traditional fashion.
Maybe the regulator arm is pushed on without the disc and now you just have the stud support and regulator mounted, instead of being loose there might then be increased friction which makes both levers move at the same time. Have you tried the micro regulation and seen if it actually affects anything? If it isn´t then it’s not complete.

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, EatPeach said:

will try it. Thanks. But I still dont know why it can't be moved in a normal way. Longines has no reason to locked the regulator by the screw. I think it still have some faults. I'll examine it first before replace the regulator and stud holder.

Its like a bolt and nut, if you turn the nut all the way to the end of the thread on a bolt, it can't go any further,  call it " locked" or what you like, longines didn't do it intentionally that is how it is .  Its for us to guess and you to check it out.

Regards Joe

[nickelsilver]

The micrometric adjustment does have limits either side, but the regulator should move independently of it. Cleaning the parts should suffice to get it moving.

[EatPeach]

1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

The micrometric adjustment does have limits either side, but the regulator should move independently of it. Cleaning the parts should suffice to get it moving.

I did clean it but so far I haven't get it moving.

[nickelsilver]

I did clean it but so far I haven't get it moving.

Ah I missed that you don't have the little brass circle. Most of these types allow gross adjustment of the regulator, but not all. Can you get a pic of the disassembled parts?

[EatPeach]

Just now, nickelsilver said:

6 minutes ago, EatPeach said:

I did clean it but so far I haven't get it moving.

Ah I missed that you don't have the little brass circle. Most of these types allow gross adjustment of the regulator, but not all. Can you get a pic of the disassembled parts?

Like this?

[nickelsilver]

Hard to make out but yes I think you have no gross adjustment on this one.

[HSL]

No seems you just have the micro regulator on that one...

[JohnR725]

I always find it interesting the approach each of us takes to solve a problem. 

For instance this question I read the question then I start scrolling down the page I notice the first reply from  from watchweasol It's sort of the technical guide. Which I find interesting did anyone bother to look at the technical guide?

The other thing I noticed was when you look at the picture the stud has two screws right away that's a clue that something strange? That means the first thing I did was look at the technical guide and we find out there very proud of the Triovis system For regulation. I snipped out an image were they talk a little about it and then they refer you to Section 5 unfortunately section 5 doesn't exist? But if it did exist even though it doesn't it would look like the other image I attached. This is why it's always good to look at the technical documentation if you've something weird.

 

 

[Nucejoe]

Wow those are one refined balance complete then. All news to me.