Problem

[Swordsman]

I got problem I have fake Rolex submariner and the crown get lost I give it to watch repair man but he take the watch apart and he couldn't get it back together. I watch almost all your vedious in order to get any automatic watch like it but I couldn't . I don't know how I get it back together or what I should do . So I hobe if you could advise me about the solution for this problem appreciate you understand and your help . 

[jdm]

May the below could be a definitive solution.

Before I get jumped on by counterfeiting apologists, just consider that it comes from Mark Lovick, the same guy that pays with his own money this forum where everyone is free to express his opinion.

 

[Nucejoe]

Welcome to the forum.

Showing pictures of the movement is a start.

 

[watchweasol]

Hi As Nucejoe says some photo's of the movement and all sundry parts would be helpful for a start.  What type of watchmaker failed to rebuild the watch he took apart ?.  By the way welcome to the forum and hopefully we can help.

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, jdm said:

it comes from Mark Lovick, the same guy that pays with his own money this forum

Don't forget that you can contribute by becoming a patron! I'm sure every penny counts!

https://www.patreon.com/watchrepair

Edited August 16, 2020 by VWatchie

[Swordsman]

I hop that this picture help that what he left to me 

[Nucejoe]

You are missing tons of parts, stem, crown, screws, return bar, springs and more.

[Swordsman]

It was working fine even with missing crown . How ever since the watch repair man take it apart I don't know what he done and I'm not watch repair not even close . 

So I think it's the end of this watch . 

It was very special one it's gift from my father 8 years ago .

[RyMoeller]

Your watchmaker did a number on that thing- he's managed to disassemble the going train without removing the hands or dial- that's the work of one who is not not a classically trained technician.

Considering it's an heirloom you may be able ton find a watchmaker who can replace the entire movement with low cost automatic.  Finding a watchmaker willing to work on counterfeit pieces will be a problem though.  I would suggest either packing it away until you've gained the experience to do a movement swap yourself or save up and purchase a watch that would make your father proud.

[jdm]

9 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Don't forget that you can contribute by becoming a patron! I'm sure every penny counts!

https://www.patreon.com/watchrepair

That is right. Another way is to enroll in the training on watchrepairlessons.com, which I did, but there is no forum badge for that. 

[VWatchie]

8 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

You are missing tons of parts, stem, crown, screws, return bar, springs and more.

As @Nucejoe suggests, there's no way anyone is going to be able to put that poor watch together without all the parts. Even though it's a counterfeit , the "watchmaker" should be able to return all parts removed. After all, the watch is your property!

[HectorLooi]

Did the watchmaker know it was a fake before he accepted the job. Some watchmakers are known to destroy fakes when they see it.

So sad. 

[watchweasol]

Hi  Regardless of the fact it was  a fake watch it was your watch    ,your property and therefore what he did was inexcusable and no credit to his trade.  On opening the watch ,to find it a fake all he had to do was close it up again and return it to you unrepaired  explaining why he was returning it to you in the unrepaired state. I would have been up to you then what course to take but to do what he did is nothing short of disgusting leaving you with nothing useable at all.  I find it sad that there are people who take it into their own judgment to be moral guardians on our account, we are grown ups and can make our own descisions.  End of Rant, appologies if it offends any one.

[WatchMaker]

The OP is a new member on this forum ... and I'm wondering if this is therefore a wind-up thread or in fact true. Mmm.

Skipping the fact that there are polar opinions on fake watches I can't recall hearing of a situation where someone has said "sure I'll look at your watch" and then shrugged and given the owner their watch back in a bag in bits 'cos they don't like it! I see no difference in the analogy of someone who has a replica Cobra kit-car and takes their car in for the engine to be worked on only to be given their engine back in bits 'cos the garage only likes genuine Cobras! They should just decline the work if that's the case!

So this is a wind-up right? If not ... then to the OP my question is: what did you say when you took your watch with a missing crown to your 'watch repairer' and he returned the whole watch in bits?!! I'm intrigued!

[jdm]

15 minutes ago, WatchMaker said:

The OP is a new member on this forum ... and I'm wondering if this is therefore a wind-up thread or in fact true. Mmm.

I don't think it is and I don't think the repairer had a problem working on a fake watch until he realized it could not be repaired, parts are not available, or something broke with normal handling as it happens with poor quality mov'ts. Surely it should not have returned in bits but is not like everyone in the world has the same professional standards.

Just for information here's a shopping link for a counterfeit 3135, which is surely more expensive than the OP's, but still a midrange on the scale of deception credibility.

https://aliexpress.com/item/4000802911410.html

 

[Swordsman]

4 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

The OP is a new member on this forum ... and I'm wondering if this is therefore a wind-up thread or in fact true. Mmm.

Skipping the fact that there are polar opinions on fake watches I can't recall hearing of a situation where someone has said "sure I'll look at your watch" and then shrugged and given the owner their watch back in a bag in bits 'cos they don't like it! I see no difference in the analogy of someone who has a replica Cobra kit-car and takes their car in for the engine to be worked on only to be given their engine back in bits 'cos the garage only likes genuine Cobras! They should just decline the work if that's the case!

So this is a wind-up right? If not ... then to the OP my question is: what did you say when you took your watch with a missing crown to your 'watch repairer' and he returned the whole watch in bits?!! I'm intrigued!

All I told him . " I have a watch it missing the crown , and I wasn't have the watch with me at this time " . He said " ok but I need to see it first cause every watch have specific crown not all is same " . I take the watch to him again and it was working just fine even with the missing crown . " He see it and told me "" ok leave it to me and I will get new crown to it "" . I left the watch with him for over 2 weeks . Then I go to him and ask for the watch and he said " there are some broken parts and it will take too long to fix " at this time I know that he can't fix it . So I ask for the new crown if he get it ( after 2 weeks ) and he said no not yet . So I ask him for the watch and told him I will not fix it and I will accept it as it . He give me the watch like you see . And when I ask him to get it back together he said " I apologise for you but really I can't get it back together it will take for ever so if you need money to give to another watch repair man to get it back together I will give you " and I refuse his money and get my watch back . 

This is the all story for this watch . 

[WatchMaker]

Well that's just awful. What a terrible experience.

As has already been pointed out, not all parts are present and even if they were there's a chance something has been damaged anyway. Parts like the balance don't take kindly to anything but very careful handling.

Giving it to another repairer then he/she will need to charge labour and if something is damaged or missing then a repair becomes uneconomical - even assuming parts can be sourced. Which is why a complete movement would probably be the best solution as this can be swapped in ... but even then there are considerations on various things.

My recommendation for what it's worth is to put this down to experience and think you had eight years good use of the watch and find another one to move forward with. I'm sure your dad wouldn't mind.

[watchweasol]

Well having heard the full story and the way It was handled it smacks of TOTAL incompetence at best and deplorable at worst, To take a working watch and breaking it during fitting a stem and crown and leave it in that state.   If he was a GP he would be struck off but he lives and works on to do that self same thing to others.  But as Watchmakers said its time to move on as there is no way back now.  Sure your Dad would understand, But keep the watch as is in the future you might try to re build the watch or use the parts case /dial with a new movement in memory of your Dad.       A truly sorry tale.

[KarlvonKoln]

Hearing sad tales like this make me angry at businessmen who would do this to their clients.  If such a technician wants to be in business to work on the kind of watches he agrees to repair, he should first learn as much as he can about them. And I think a situation like this (unassembled and unrepaired with missing and broken parts) warrants more than just an offer of money to cover future repair.  He should have offered to replace the watch for you.  Or offer to put a new movement in it.  One should take responsibility for one's mistakes.  He ruined your personal property.  Saying it would take forever to fix is a poor excuse.  I think he could have given more explanation and better compensation. 

[VWatchie]

On 8/18/2020 at 1:45 PM, KarlvonKoln said:

One should take responsibility for one's mistakes.

Indeed, you can say that again!

[eezy]

Sounds more like a hobbyist rather than an accredited professional.

Why would you need to take it apart to fit a crown? Unless the bits had dropped inside while removing the stem.....

[jdm]

The guy offered money, OP refused,  still all that scandal?

I suspect that some members here should try the sobering experience of attempting even the easier task on a Chinese movement of this class to realize how crappy they are. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by jdm

[KarlvonKoln]

1 hour ago, jdm said:

The guy offered money, OP refused,  still all that scandal?

I suspect that some members here should try the sobering experience of attempting even the easier task on a Chinese movement of this class to realize how crappy they are. 

You do make a very good point.  I think I will try to obtain one to get an idea of just how poor the workmanship is.  But I do not doubt that I would likely decline to work one one.  And for that reason.  I do not like to be in a position to have to return someone's property in worse condition than when I received it.  This has happened too often with my own property: a Datsun car I once owned, and a Bianchi bicycle, just as examples.  It is a difficult thing for both sides.

But I could understand how a movement could be deceptively simple-seeming, and yet parts availability or methods of assembly could make everything more difficult. 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

I think I will try to obtain one to get an idea of just how poor the workmanship is.

Not all are the same. From the looks the OP's one is poor. Seagull for example have a good reputation, i have the super thin auto and looks good, but they intensively grade production and you can be sure that as an individual Internet buyer will only get the lowest. Sometime they don't even lubricate them at all. All depends by the whim of the factory manager that day.

The old manual wind that I reviewed recentlyn are great time keepers and precisely built, but the screws and shock springs are fragile. One has to go with a much lighter hand compared to a quality mov.t.

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

But I do not doubt that I would likely decline to work one one.

I don't decline Chinese watches but advise the owner that I can't provide a warranty, even when replacing the mov's as it happens one have to. I decline fakes however.

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

And for that reason.  I do not like to be in a position to have to return someone's property in worse condition than when I received it.

That is wise. I got a twin cylinder air compressor from my neighbor with the clear statement that I don't know I can fix it. But he wanted to dispose of it, so it's OK to try.