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WatchRepairrr

Need help with powermatic watch

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33 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Might I suggest a picture or two of the movement as It may help members with their diagnosis of your problem knowing the movement type.

The Tissot Powermatic 80 is a well known derivation of the ETA 2824, with a slower frequency and I think a non metallic escapement to double the power reserve. It has been discussed few times already. Its servicing and diagnosing is not different from other mechanical watches, at the same time is is not the best choice for a beginner like the OP. What could help is to see timegrapher pictures in various positions.

Edited by jdm

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9 hours ago, WatchRepairrr said:

Tissot powermatic 80

 

7 hours ago, jdm said:

is not the best choice for a beginner like the OP. What could help is to see timegrapher pictures in various positions.

the problem with servicing a watch like this for any of us is that it's a proprietary watch. This means the parts are only available from Tissot the technical specifications including those from eta who made the movement are only available to the chosen few which is typically not us.  then while it did come from a ETA 2824 movement and can use some of its parts here are the modification parts which of course are not available. Plus the added complication of Synthetic escapement, New adjusting rate system of balance hairspring. These things of course make it a little bit more complicated and if you're just starting this most definitely should not be her watch the start on perhaps. The reason I have the word perhaps is sometimes painful lessons at the beginning help to make better decisions later on.

Then when you're giving us your timing results make sure you wind the watch up about 50 turns the crown should do it. Let the watch stabilize for four minutes your lift angles 47° and because the synthetic escapement the escapement noises or library really quiet you going to need to push the amplification of your timing machine up to the Max or considerably higher than the normal watch.

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Its your etachron regulator arm

the individual is going to have a really tough time adjusting the etachron system in this watch as it seems to be missing?

to get a better understanding what we're dealing with I have a link. If you look in the picture itself you going to see it has to timing screws on the balance wheel which technically requires special tools which of course none of us are ever going to see. Basically we have a free sprung balance wheel which is maintaining a very precise timekeeping unlike the watch in this discussion which is having a problem which is not a regulation problem as it is way way beyond the specifications of regulation.

https://calibercorner.com/tissot-caliber-powermatic-80/

9 hours ago, WatchRepairrr said:

After i did clean and oil but balance

then out of curiosity how did you clean the watch and which oils are you using.

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24 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

the problem with servicing a watch like this for any of us is that it's a proprietary watch..

Right. Link to previous discussion, if the guy there managed to solve his problem, he didn't let us know. 

 

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Oh, there are weights on spokes. :pulling-hair-out:

I got a RoAmer manual wind with similar weights but that you turn with screwdriver to poise. 

I wonder if shortening the hairspring's active length is doable here.

 

 

 

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There is a good explanation of the philosophy regarding the development of the watch to be found here   https://monochrome-watches.com/swatch-groups-powermatic-movement-a-powerful-entry-level-engine/      The regulation appears to be done by the weights on the balance arms, and should the staff break the complete balance has to be changed.

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3 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

There is a good explanation of the philosophy regarding the development of the watch to be found here   https://monochrome-watches.com/swatch-groups-powermatic-movement-a-powerful-entry-level-engine/      The regulation appears to be done by the weights on the balance arms, and should the staff break the complete balance has to be changed.

WW, Haven't red the article yet. If loss of lubricant( to cleaning solution)  particularely in escape mech is to be considered as the cause, OP would just have to try any lubricant he can find and observe the extent of its effect.

There always the possibility of the weights having moved inside cleaning machine, anyway you look at this, touching the weights means loss of poise so it needs to be poised as it gets regulated, unless we go by altering the hairspring length. 

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31 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

If loss of lubricant( to cleaning solution) 

the problem with a watch like this is having a Synthetic escapement will likely means special lubricants and possibly special cleaning procedures. so for instance Moebius TH7 is probably the recommendation for this escapement which I seriously doubt the original poster used at all. then cleaning and ultrasonic would be very bad. So more than likely it was cleaned inappropriately lubricated inappropriately.

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/moebius-th7-sc-microgliss-420.900.html

 

31 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

unless we go by altering the hairspring length. 

then I really like the idea of shortening the hairspring. Seeing as how this watch was designed with real close tolerances in mind and they probably laser welding the end of the hairspring anyway shortening sounds like a great approach. As opposed to figuring out what is really going on like why is a watch of reasonable precision now running slow? I would suggest it's probably a incorrect set timing app that are problematic anyway and are going to be extremely problematic with an escapement that's extremely quiet. then no you can't make up for it with the timing waits there only good for about plus or minus 30 seconds

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6 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

the problem with a watch like this is having a Synthetic escapement will likely means special lubricants and possibly special cleaning procedures. so for instance Moebius TH7 is probably the recommendation for this escapement which I seriously doubt the original poster used at all. then cleaning and ultrasonic would be very bad. So more than likely it was cleaned inappropriately lubricated inappropriately.

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/moebius-th7-sc-microgliss-420.900.html

 

then I really like the idea of shortening the hairspring. Seeing as how this watch was designed with real close tolerances in mind and they probably laser welding the end of the hairspring anyway shortening sounds like a great approach. As opposed to figuring out what is really going on like why is a watch of reasonable precision now running slow? I would suggest it's probably a incorrect set timing app that are problematic anyway and are going to be extremely problematic with an escapement that's extremely quiet. then no you can't make up for it with the timing waits there only good for about plus or minus 30 seconds

Apart from TG giving us untrue numbers or incorrect lube  , if timing has actually altered so much, a big problem is if weights have moved during the clean. True the design lets staff pivots break before weights move but thats when in use and not in cleaning machine. 

Non metalic escapement is new to me. 

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42 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Non metalic escapement is new to me.

not exactly new but not exactly well-known either. here's another example of plastic. A very long time ago I ended up with new old stock movements. Then years later I found the Sears version so I can have a complete watch.

the challenge today is that with the watch companies wanting to have a longer service intervals or other things are trying to achieve were going to see all sorts of strange substances that we've never seen before. that will unfortunately introduce new challenges to watch repair.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/tissot/tissot.html

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