Waltham pocket watch not running

[TyJlovespocketwatches]

I recently acquired this beautiful waltham pocket watch, however it is not running. When winding, the crown wheel does not turn as far as I can tell. Is there any way to fix this without putting the watch at risk or going to a professional? I have no experience with this kind of thing so any help is great, but descriptive help is requested.

IMG_2562.HEIC IMG_2565.HEIC IMG_2563.HEIC

[Nucejoe]

Welcome to the forum.

[KarlvonKoln]

Hello and welcome.  I would like to give this a shot.  But I cannot view your attachments.  May I ask: is it lever set, pin set, or stem set?  And do you feel comfortable lifting out the movement, and pulling off your hands and face?  (I heard that last part in my head and it sounded weird.)  The first thing that leaps to mind is maybe the setting mechanism isn't disengaging properly?  If you have a photo of the movement, I could look it up.

[jonomanh]

Hi.

Sounds like a pretty significant problem. Without any experience working on watch movements, it might be a pretty big task to get running.

Here’s where you might start though.
1. Research the movement. You can plug the serial number into several pocket watch collecting databases. That should help identify the movement.
2. Inspect the movement as best you can. You can carefully remove the movement from the case without too much trouble. From there you can see if anything seems wrong.
3. Research replacement parts. There’s plenty of sites that specialize in old pocket watch parts. Also eBay is a possible source for donor movements. These are a bit of a crap shoot though.
4. Learn all you can about working on mechanical movements. YouTube has loads of videos to get you started.
5. Next you need a bunch of tools. You’ll learn which ones when you learn about mechanical movements, so pay attention to that.
6. Dive into the movement. Expect to make mistakes. Expect things to go wrong. But take your time and be patient.

If you don’t want to dive in to all of that yourself, it may be worth the money to find a watchmaker/ watch repairer.

If you wanna do it yourself. I can add some links that will get you heading in the right direction.


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[Nucejoe]

No luck opening the pix.

If you hear no sound as you turn to wind,  sliding pinion dose not engage with winding pinion, which points to likely causes such as,  a fault at return bar, dislodged return bar spring or faulty winding pinion or crown wheel or stem.

If you hear any sound, description of the sound can help.

Do hands move in set position? 

[clockboy]

Welcome to the forum, If you have no experience with repair then take it to a horologist. Waltham pocket watches are one of the few vintage watches where most parts can still be sourced. 

[watchweasol]

Hi   I reiterate clockboys statement  without knowledge and the appropriate skills tinkering is frought with danger and further expense .

[JohnR725]

19 hours ago, TyJlovespocketwatches said:

I recently acquired this beautiful waltham pocket watch, however it is not running. When winding, the crown wheel does not turn as far as I can tell. Is there any way to fix this without putting the watch at risk or going to a professional? I have no experience with this kind of thing so any help is great, but descriptive help is requested

I have converted your images to something about the rest of us can look at.

I've also looked up the serial number on the pocket watch database where we have a problem? notice there's a parts tab when you look up this watch but when you go there there are no parts listed? That's because if you look at the 1940 parts data book this watch is too old and its parts are not list. I would suggest for parts look on eBay find a another movement the same as yours purchase this for the parts. It also give you something to take apart and practice with before attempting this one less likely you will destroy your watch. then we can't even look up the mainspring for this watch so we'll have to take it out to see what it is because of its the original mainspring in satin has to be replaced anyway. The watch hasn't been serviced in a long time it needs to be serviced anyway and you change the mainspring when you service the watch.

So can watch be serviced without going to professional and somehow it easily fixing the watch probably not. Not without a proper diagnosis which would put the watch at risk if you have no idea which are doing. Then the also have to determine whether it's a watch problem or a case problem. Sometimes the sleeve can move in the case Moves the position of the crown and stem that changes whether you can set the watch or even wind it.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/13303034

 

 

[saswatch88]

This is a waltham model 1898 0S. The crown wheel is located under the barrel and it connects to the Mainspring arbor. There is a click spring under the barrel as well. Either the clutch spring is weak or damaged which is not allowing the clutch wheel to engage, or the crown wheel click spring is broke, mainspring can also be broke too. There’s no way for you to see that the crown wheel is turning or not unless you take the movement out


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[saswatch88]

This is a waltham model 1898 0S. The crown wheel is located under the barrel and it connects to the Mainspring arbor. There is a click spring under the barrel as well. Either the clutch spring is weak or damaged which is not allowing the clutch wheel to engage, or the crown wheel click spring is broke, mainspring can also be broke too. There’s no way for you to see that the crown wheel is turning or not unless you take the movement out


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[Daniel123]

Cracking little watch, I’d not try to repair it until you’ve practiced probably for a couple of years on less important pocket watches or pass it over to a pro. I’d at least ask for a quote then you can make an informed decision. I’d also ask yourself what your actually going to be using it for? If you want to use it day to day then definitely get it restored but as it is it’s a beautiful object that would still give a lot of pleasure on display

[jdm]

 

On 7/17/2020 at 9:16 AM, clockboy said:

If you have no experience with repair then take it to a horologist.

 

16 hours ago, watchweasol said:

I reiterate clockboys statement  without knowledge and the appropriate skills tinkering is frought with danger and further expense 

 

14 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

So can watch be serviced without going to professional and somehow it easily fixing the watch probably not.

 

9 minutes ago, Daniel123 said:

I’d not try to repair it until you’ve practiced probably for a couple of years on less important pocket watches or pass it over to a pro. 

There is the correct, sensible advice. Anything to the contrary is not just foolish but would be an accessory in the sure slaughter of a fine piece in the hands of a person with zero experience and knowledge.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by jdm

[KarlvonKoln]

JDM and the others stated things very well.  If, as you say, you have no experience with this sort of thing,  then I feel you probably already know by now, thanks to the above advice, that this is far too handsome a watch upon which to gain said experience.

As others have also stated, there are cheap "for-repair-or-parts" movements to be had on auction sites, which will give you opportunity to practice. This very site offers courses which can help, if you still wish to learn to service it yourself one day.  

I got lucky with the Swiss 5-bar movement I am working on right now.  It had a similar issue (in addition to having been abused by the prior technician's apprentice). When I took the dial off, I saw right away that the yoke had somehow slipped out of its groove on the clutch pinion (sliding pinion).  Whether that was due to inept crown removal or whether the chunks of porcelain in the works (from the damaged dial) got between the parts and forced them asunder I do not know. Luckily the watch was not running even after that "service" they gave, so I did not see grit sprinkled throughout the works.  She still got the world's most thorough cleaning though.  I mention all this, not to say "There's yer problem", but to illustrate that someone with a bit of experience will know how to locate the issue, identify it, safely get to the parts in involved, and rectify it along with all associated perimeter duties to the movement.  If you are content to place this beautiful watch on the back burner for a time, you could learn to become that person.  There are loads of resources here, and plenty of willing and knowledgeable and patient people. Basically, you've found the right place.  If you want to do this, grab yourself an old, beat up movement or two, similar to the that one, and let's get crackin'!

Edited July 18, 2020 by KarlvonKoln
Typo fixed

[saswatch88]

If you were to send this watch to a pro it’ll probably cost you more than what the watch is worth to fix. Go on eBay and search Waltham 1898. 0s. There are plenty of them up there right now. I want to practice taking it apart and putting it back together. You will understand what I meant by everything being under the barrel. It could be quite tricky to get it together but it’s not impossible. Pocket watches are the easiest thing for a beginner or novice to start with. I don’t think you need a couple of years experience to do this. If you are a quick learner And you think you can handle tedious work you should be able to get this going on your own. You can always get a movement that is already running and just replace the dial and hands. I don’t know if this is something you wanna delve into but if so I think you should give it a shot.


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[JohnR725]

20 hours ago, saswatch88 said:

This is a waltham model 1898 0S.

minor confusion on my part but the pocket watch database indicates it's a Model:1891 versus your 1898?

[TyJlovespocketwatches]

After looking at your answers, I decided to just take it to a professional and discovered it is only useful for scrap, so I just returned it to the seller, as I set it up so I could do that if necessary. Thanks for all the advice! Sorry if this isn't how you actually reply, as others pointed out I am new to the forum and have enough watches that I need lots of help on fixing them, or at least identifying the problem. Thanks again!

[saswatch88]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

minor confusion on my part but the pocket watch database indicates it's a Model:1891 versus your 1898?

yes 1891 that was a typo in my last post....i hate using tapatalk on the iphone 

[saswatch88]

1 minute ago, TyJlovespocketwatches said:

After looking at your answers, I decided to just take it to a professional and discovered it is only useful for scrap, so I just returned it to the seller, as I set it up so I could do that if necessary. Thanks for all the advice! Sorry if this isn't how you actually reply, as other pointed out I am new to the forum and have enough watches that I need lots of help on fixing them, or at least identifying the problem. Thanks again!

honestly whoever told you it was scrap is full of crap.....they either dont know anything about pocket watches or they just didnt want to be bothered with it. if you want to send it to me ill get it running for you

[jdm]

10 minutes ago, TyJlovespocketwatches said:

I decided to just take it to a professional and discovered it is only useful for scrap.

You should not put foot again in that place, and leave a negative recension where appropriate. "not worth the cost to fix", or "we don't do these repairs" would have been honest, acceptable answers, denigrating other's property is insulting and unpressional.

10 minutes ago, TyJlovespocketwatches said:

So I just returned it to the seller, as I set it up so I could do that if necessary. 

The tag says sold as is but you insisted to return it? If you want a guaranteed watch please buy a new one. That's why I  don't sell on Ebay.

[KarlvonKoln]

Only good for scrap?!?!?  That "professional" actually said that???  Gott in Himmel!  I'd lay money that I could have fixed it.  Then its worth afterward would possibly have exceeded its repair cost, depending.  A proper technician would have at least given you all the data and let you decide.  The way you're telling this, it sounds as though he did not wish to be bothered with "some obsolete antique".  How closely did he look at it, by the way?  Did he at least have movement out and dial off?  Because if he didn't, then he did not diagnose squat IMHO.

Edited July 19, 2020 by KarlvonKoln
Edited for clarity

[KarlvonKoln]

You know...how much was the seller asking?  Think he'll relist?  That was a very pretty Waltham.  Can't let a scrapper snatch it up to part it out and melt the case down.  At least, not until I can scope out what the needed fixes are.  Hmmm...

Ah, I see in the pic: $175.  That is more than I have right this very moment.  But there is time (pardon the pun).  If it's really on its way back to the seller now, then with luck, you all may see pics of this Waltham again.  We'll see...

Edited July 19, 2020 by KarlvonKoln