Elgin 1907 Pocket Watch

[lakeradio6]

Hello, I just cleaned and oil my first pocket watch, good news

is now runs !

It has a small lever on rim that locks watch so it cannot be time

set after movement is in case. From pocketwatchdatabase ad

for watch says: "Patent self-locking setting device."

 Why make watch so it cannot be set to the time by crown

after movement in case ?? You do have to remove movement

from case, change lever and then you can change time if lever

was in " lock ". When lever in " unlock " the crown setting always

works.

 

 

[FLwatchguy73]

Good morning and congrats on your success. Do you have photos of the watch and movement and the lever in question? The Lever you seem to be describing is typically for when the watch is outside the case so you can install the hands.

[lakeradio6]

Hello, I wil add a photo to this reply. The lever is on front rim of movement I think about 3 oclock under dial plate. My

watch together working so I don't want to remove dial to get better picture. It took be hours to get hands on and

not hitting each other. I used my phone to take a picture every 5 seconds while I worked on watch, the picture I am

adding to this reply is one on them. Looking at picture about 1/2 inch to left of my thumb there is a silver lever on

rim held by one screw. The lever is connected to keyless yoke by linkage. When lever end (at edge of movement)

is down (level end can be moved about .25 inch on rim) the crown works for setting time. When lever is up the time

cannot be change using crown. Once movement is in case, the lever is held in place by case. Again, watch in case with lever

up time cannot be changed using crown. The advertisement for watch says " self-locking setting device ".

The lever pivots on single screw holding it in place.

[FLwatchguy73]

So yes, as I remember it that lever is for placing the hands on the watch, and this has been discussed here before. Others here will know exactly what it is called, it just escapes me. At the moment, naturally.

[lakeradio6]

13 hours ago, FLwatchguy73 said:

So yes, as I remember it that lever is for placing the hands on the watch, and this has been discussed here before. Others here will know exactly what it is called, it just escapes me. At the moment, naturally.

This lever does no lock the hands, it only stops the crown from

moving them.

[mooseface]

Does the movement actually need to be removed from the case in order to change the position on the lever or do you just need to unscrew the bezel holding the glass on the front of the case? Perhaps it would be useful to post a pcture of teh watch in its case with the case open.

[lakeradio6]

1 hour ago, mooseface said:

Does the movement actually need to be removed from the case in order to change the position on the lever or do you just need to unscrew the bezel holding the glass on the front of the case? Perhaps it would be useful to post a pcture of teh watch in its case with the case open.

The rim lever is under the dial. The case has screw on front, body

with stem and crown, and screw on back. To change lever you must

remove movement from body. The movement. only will come out

the front and the movement. two screws that hold movement to

body are on rear of movement. Therefore, the front and back must be

removed, then take movement out of body. The inside body rim holds

lever in " locked " or " unlocked " position. A picture with case front

removed only shows the watch dial, the lever is under dial.

I guest this it the mystery, why would you make a watch that can be

put in case and the time cannot be set without removing movement

completely from case ?

I think you may be able to remove front, remove back, turn 2

movement holding screws 1/2 turn, tilt movement up just enough

to move rim lever then but back together.

I would take more pictures, but I had such a time with watch hands

I am not going to remove dial again.

Edited May 26, 2020 by lakeradio6
add more

[lakeradio6]

Go to YouTube, search video by " staying sane "

see his video Elgin 293 Disassembly

at 4.01 into video you can see levet at 6 o'clock at very bottom of

screen, it is in up, locked poistion. see linkage to keyless works.

Movement put in case this way time cannot be change by crown.

 

[mooseface]

I believe this is the  patent document for the mechanism in question but it is not easy reading and I cannot work out what the function of the lever is from the patent. Perhaps it will help you or perhaps someone here can help decipher the patent.

[Marc]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the requirements for some railway time keepers was that the hands could only be set by removing the bezel to access a lever in the rim of the movement so that they couldn't be inadvertently altered. I don't recall any need to remove the dial though. 

Is it possible that this is a movement that has been recased and redialed using parts that don't accommodate this feature? 

[mooseface]

I originally suspected that this was a re-cased railroad movement but having seen the patent I don't think it is. It is a stem setting not a lever setting but for some reason unknown that lever is there. now I am as intrigued as the OP.

[lakeradio6]

8 hours ago, Marc said:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the requirements for some railway time keepers was that the hands could only be set by removing the bezel to access a lever in the rim of the movement so that they couldn't be inadvertently altered. I don't recall any need to remove the dial though. 

Is it possible that this is a movement that has been recased and redialed using parts that don't accommodate this feature? 

The movement you are referring to is called " levet set ".

Lever set watch had a pull out levet at about 1 o'clock.

To set time remove just front of case, with finger nail pull out

lever then with crown set time. After settling time push lever

back in and then replace front, now crown will only wind watch.

Search YouTube lever set watch and see many videos.

A very good video of my mystery level at 3 oclock is on

YouTube: staying sane video " 1917 Elgin 16s grade 293 assembly.

at between 15 and 16 minutes into video Mr Sane clearly

moves rim lever to what I call down position . This allows setting

time using crown. I have asked Mr Sane what lever is for.

Not sure in he will answer or knows answer, but I would bet

he knew to move lever down.

The movement in his video is same as mine.

 

[lakeradio6]

4 hours ago, mooseface said:

I originally suspected that this was a re-cased railroad movement but having seen the patent I don't think it is. It is a stem setting not a lever setting but for some reason unknown that lever is there. now I am as intrigued as the OP.

Please see my reply to Marc below

My watch and rim lever is very clear on YouTube video

[Klassiker]

Just guessing here, but maybe it's from some kind of sealed timing device, for competitions, like pigeon racing or something.

[Razz]

Here is my Elgin hand setting in 5 pictures.

Then the crown can be used to wind the mainspring.