ladies gold sekonda 17 jewels

[ScottNeill]

Hi there my name is Scott.

I am an extreme beginner with watch repair and my grandmother had given me a ladies gold sekonda with 17 jewels to fix.

Changed batteries and mechanisms of more modern watches but this one seems a step up. Assuming would be easy fix but not sure where to start... As you can see in the pictures I have the back off and stem out and that's about it so far.

What should I be looking for our is there any part to avoid taking off?

[watchweasol]

Hi   So you have it out of the case , right  the first thing is whats the matter with it, I take it Its not running, If so check the wind is it fully wound up, If so with a small artist brush or an puffer move the balance wheel, does it rotate about its axis ok and come to rest after a while ? with the tip of the brush does the balance waggle up and down If so balance staff is probaby broken ,  if not the watch probably needs a good service (clean and Lubricate) . So as you can see in these few sentences there is a 101 things to stop a watch, what we need is information and answers to questions this way we can all help you along the way.  Cheers  

[watchweasol]

Hi  By the way it would be useful to know the make and calibre of the watch. Have alook under or near the balance wheel for a logo and a number  ( P) 220 or such like or again a good close up of the balance wheel area so as we can see.

[ScottNeill]

@watchweasol hopefully the photo attached is the one you meant?

So the wheel didn't go up and down and did turn for a bit then stopped so think you are right about needing a clean then oil. 

Really appreciate the help as mentioned to immediate family I was getting more into taking watches apart and now I'm the family watch fixer! 

[AndyHull]

Talk about jumping in at the deep end. Those little Sekonda movements are tiny.

I've managed to resurrect a few similar Sekondas, but they are pretty fiddly to work with, but they clean up nicely, and run well.

 

You need a steady hand and a good eye to take them apart and put them back together.

I think the movement in yours is a Chaika 1301 (the one I linked to above is another similar Russian 1509b movement from around the same era).

 

More info here.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Chaika_1301

Be very careful when re-assembling, the tiny pivots on the ends of the shafts break very easily.

When re-fitting those plates, let gravity put the plate in postition, don't be tempted to press hard to get them into the jewels.

Gently does it. This applies to all watch movements, but even more so with smaller movements like this one. 

Clean everything (with lighter fluid, if that is what you have available).

Let it dry. Take extra care not to damage the hairspring, as the balances on these require very delicate handling.

Lubricate the jewels, and so forth, but keep oil away from the hairspring.

Use tiny amounts of watch oil applied with an oiler, or the end of a small pin. The very end of the tip, half a millimeter or so, can be flattened with pliers if you don't have access to a proper watch oiler. Good quality watch oil is worth the money, but for a practice movement like this, you could try a light machine oil (sewing machine oil for example). Oiling is a bit of an art, and a talent worth developing.

Over oiling, or using too heavy an oil will bring the thing to a halt, so use it sparingly. 

Let us know how you get on.

[nickelsilver]

I would highly recommend not working on this movement as a first watch. Something much bigger would be far better.

[luiazazrambo]

My life is a lot easier after buying a second hand microscope for £18 including postage. I have this one: Zenith STM-1 x20 Stereoscopic Microscope

The dirt and damage and the state of different tiny parts are now visible to me. I could not see these details with my eyeglasses. And now i can put that tiny balance jewel spring back much quicker well in my terms of course.  

I agree with nickelsilver, however I teach my daughter as to never give up. So the best of luck.

[AndyHull]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

I would highly recommend not working on this movement as a first watch. Something much bigger would be far better.

Ordinarily I would agree, however since you have managed to get this far, and since the movement is relatively common on ebay (and thus pretty inexpensive), and since the thing doesn't work in the first place, I would say.. carry on.

If you can fix this one, you are well on your way to being able to fix a lot of others. Besides.. which of us hasn't been responsible for one or two minor horological casualties as a result of our early attempts.  

If all else fails, you can always buy a few more... how many do you want?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24-OVAL-15x13mm-women-WATCHES-CHAIKA-1301-Movements-Steampunk-Art-A465/352821711832?hash=item5225d013d8:g:jzsAAOSw8YddohhT

.. or ..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ladies-Gold-Sekonda-Wristwatch-17-Jewels/333353385564?hash=item4d9d68fe5c:g:SmYAAOSw3hxdm7Nb

I will say, if/when you do get it working, it is very satisfying to have fixed something that small and delicate.

Edited January 16, 2020 by AndyHull

[nickelsilver]

Just now, AndyHull said:

Ordinarily I would agree, however since you have managed to get this far

 

Not trying to sound mean to the OP, but taking off the train bridge with the dial and hands on and balance and fork in...is the reverse of making progress. By suggesting getting a larger movement I mean so they can at least get the proper order of disassembly down, get used to handling parts, etc. Even taking down and reassembling a 13"' movement once with a little guidance would make tackling this little guy 20x easier. 

[AndyHull]

11 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Not trying to sound mean to the OP, but taking off the train bridge with the dial and hands on and balance and fork in...is the reverse of making progress. By suggesting getting a larger movement I mean so they can at least get the proper order of disassembly down, get used to handling parts, etc. Even taking down and reassembling a 13"' movement once with a little guidance would make tackling this little guy 20x easier. 

Indeed. However we learn from our mistakes, and the only way to do that is make the mistakes in the first place, so I wouldn't abandon the project, but instead, proceed with caution.

https://www.youtube.com/user/jewldood

I would however suggest before proceeding any further, that ScottNeill would be well advised to watch a few of Mark's excellent videos, as these will assist with things like the order in which things should be taken apart, how to clean and oil etc.

If he gets stuck then we can always offer advice.

[luiazazrambo]

Don't ever listen to them! Put your hammer out of sight for time being, however when you have parts broken or/and lost and the movement is a complete mess take it out again and smash the bugger. It's advised to use swear words too, if nothing else it will give you some satisfaction! 

[AndyHull]

36 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

Don't ever listen to them! Put your hammer out of sight for time being, however when you have parts broken or/and lost and the movement is a complete mess take it out again and smash the bugger. It's advised to use swear words too, if nothing else it will give you some satisfaction! 

I thought the hammer was only to be used on Timexes.
(AndyHull hides before @JerseyMo finds another use for a hammer).

[luiazazrambo]

8 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

I thought the hammer was only to be used on Timexes.
(AndyHull hides before @JerseyMo finds another use for a hammer).

That was oldhippy.

[AndyHull]

5 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

That was oldhippy.

I wonder if perhaps oldhippy has a secret stash of vintage Timex Marlins and he is trying to encourage the rest of us to destroy as many Timexes as possible so the price goes up. He loves them really.

[watchweasol]

Well Scott you have seen the words of wisdom so you take your choice, either box it up and gain skills before proceeding and practice on somthing bigger and cheap as Implied by Nicklesilver whos advice Iwould agree with or you dive in with big feet and take your chance. A Louiazrambo suggests there is always the hammer, Joking of course. which ever help will always be at hand.

[canthus]

These ladies watches are very small and can be difficult for a novice.  My experience, having done several of them and currently a Chaika 1601A, reflects the comments above.  I would add to check the shape of the hairspring before you start to ensure it is sound. They are very fragile and easily damaged, so extra care when removing/inserting.  Use polybag/sheet when removing shock springs (removed by turning in housing until released by gap).  The mainsprings are also quite delicate and can become distorted if hand fitted. If they wind up fully (see above comment) then I sometimes just remove the cap and pop the barrel in a small pot of lighter fuel (open side down) and into the ultrasonic for 5 mins.  You can see the muck come out!!!   I then repeat with new fluid until no muck seen.  The US seems to shake the coils about so the muck /oil is released. I then just put a very small dab of 8300 grease to the bottom of the barrel and cover then refit the cover, then lube the arbor with HP1300, seems to work ok.  Also check the balance cock when removing as there is often a shim under it!!

[ScottNeill]

Thank you for the replies I appreciate any and all advice! Also understand both sides of the coin for attempting and not attempting this repair/service.

Unfortunately as my Nanny has given this task it wasn't optional lol so will have to make a go of it either way!

Will check Marks video first and have also bought another second hand one from ebay in case is does go totally wrong at least I will have a back up.

Hopefully with a gentle touch (as much as I'm able) it will be mostly successful but will post the results when I find time to make a proper go of this...or can change my name and location and hope the Nanny doesn't find out.

[jdm]

I must say that while understanding the mettlesome attitude by AndyHull, I tend to agree more with Master Nickelsilver, just because OP's chances are objectivey small considering the piece in question, and I wouldn't like to see him absconding until a replacement is found :-)

Canthus gave the practical, good advice above, but how much of that can be applied  by a total beginner? 

 

[AndyHull]

6 hours ago, ScottNeill said:

..or can change my name and location and hope the Nanny doesn't find out.