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Several months back, I was perusing eBay looking for a cheap watch to work on. Saw this lot of 8 watches and got them all for pretty cheap. What attracted me to the lot was the scalloped case of the Elgin. The movement turned out to be an Elgin Grade 524, manufactured in 1937. I finally got around to servicing it. The balance wheel had lots of issues (bent hairspring, wheel out of true, roller table not fully set on balance staff, and a loose roller jewel). I ended up finding a 1936 donor movement to steal the balance out of. Well, that doesn't seem to work well with these older timepieces. So, I serviced the donor and got it to run pretty decent. I ended up doing a movement swap with the watch. Now I have a movement that I can use as my guinea pig for a variety of balance work. The watch turned out quite nice i think. Case just needed a clean and light polish. Crystal was in good shape. Added a leather strap to finish it off. Love the look of that case and dial.

Typically with any watch cleaning product especially with ammonia room temperature. In other words not elevated temperatures otherwise you can have all sorts of interesting very dramatic problems. I've copied and pasted something out of the instructions. Did notice it says tapwater and I would really go with the deionized. But you notice for the rinse deionized definitely then ideally followed by their other rinse. As you want to displace the water and have something that isn't going to leave water on your product. The concern I have with tap water can be as a lot of tapwater will have oxygen dissolved in it and having a really clean piece of steel exposed to water and oxygen is not good at all. Then the dilution is extremely important otherwise it's going to be way way too strong. Notice up above the reference to time is 3 to 10 minutes I would err on the short side as longer is not necessarily better. The ammonia that makes things nice and bright shiny has a really bad effect if You leave it into long so I would go for shorter rather the longer. PI_ELMA RED 1zu9_EN.pdf

Just to circle back to this. I received my first donor (from India, a Slava 2427 in a fake Seiko 5 watch). Surprisingly good movement, even trying to run when wound. I only want it for it's shock springs and a few bits from the auto works but I already thinking about servicing it and getting it running. Donor regret is real I pulled the shock spring from the balance setting and had a play with installing it. Made a new tool from a smaller diameter springbar, "condomed' it with some evostik glue but had no luck. I used my new jewel picker for moving the spring into position over the jewel, this worked really well and had no untoward moments with it pinging off like I found when using tweezers. I next tried using a piece of sharpened 3mm pegwood to slide two of the legs under the retaining lip with a rotating action (first one and the swing the other around underneath). I then held the spring hard against the side with the two inserted legs to keep them in position while I rotated the third leg around with a needle tool. Once the third leg was over the cutout I could then do a push down / drag motion with the needle which tucked the leg under the lip. Finally done it! Taking a break before tackling the dial side setting and it's probably not my best work as the balance cock is a bit scratched from all of the earliy failures. Thanks all for your assistance and moral support!

Not that you or me need either but yes i think they are vintage mini hair curling tongs. The big version of these were warmed up and then used, these small ones only 4 or 5 inches long maybe had to be held with a cloth. Could be completely wrong but now they are mainspring coils curling tongs.

Water is inherently rich in oxygen, being 33% of it, the problem is really about tap water. Tap water is never close to pure, depending on where you are in the world you have additives, like fluoride and chlorine as antibacterials. You also have the minerals that have been dissolved into it in the aquifer/substrate it has traveled through. On top of that it may be buffered by the water company to get it as neutral as they can, 7.0PH. Distilled or better deionised water are best for our application. Deinonised water does however leach metal ions from any it touches, though the short exposure we would have it would not be any problem compared to tap water. Tom

I removed the crystal and pushed it out gently from the dial side - while I didn't seperate the movement from the ring I'm pretty sure that I could have done, so to answer your question yes I'm pretty certain the movement is held in place by that ring shown in the picture above. Because I had one I've fitted a domed mineral for now - looks great though I've the correct part on order that I'll make decision on later... I removed the crystal and pushed it out gently from the dial side - while I didn't seperate the movement from the ring I'm pretty sure that I could have done, so to answer your question yes I'm pretty certain the movement is held in place by that ring shown in the picture above. Because I had one I've fitted a domed mineral for now - looks great though I've the correct part on order that I'll make decision on later... Unfortunately the job is not quite done, as always seems to be the case! Hour/minute hand isn't set right, so I'll be going through the whole process again at some point soon...

Yes with 50 W you can do all sorts a serious engraving and cutting of metal as that's what we have at work. But ours was rather pricey very pricey as it was specifically designed for the jewelry industry. Then safety features missing from yours has a nice metal box with a door that opens and closes electronically and all sorts of safety interlocks. You can look in through special filtered class as yours doesn't have that you would not what I have a reflection of the light in your eyes not good at all. Then if you start doing some serious engraving you going to be of vaporizing metal and whatever your engraving and you really don't want to breathe that either. So I your bargain price you're going to have to figure out some way to add in some safety features. I'm attaching a spec sheet for the HP oils and I don't really think there's that much difference between the 1000 and the 1300. Yes there is a viscosity different spots I doubt you'd notice the difference. 992_O20737_40 SYNT-HP oil.pdf

You beat me to it.

that is the second generation Red Dot which can be determined by the dash markers and chromed hands. Original bracelets did not have the Timex logo. The one you have is from the same era Timex Quartz. "pinned/riveted"....those are the most misused words for vintage Timex and absolutely untrue! This model use the M106 movement and can be a bit of a pain to get running properly. I sounds like the beat is off and likely related to the hairspring not breathing fully. Or it is sitting at an angle and not parallel to the balance wheel. Have you opened the back? Take a look at how the balance wheel swings. Does it sort of wobble?

As you have changed the hairspring to one that is a little stronger I expect that is the problem. Verge escapement are designed to run on as little power as possible with very low amplitude, in other words very little swing in the balance.

I've shown this 404 club Miyota quartz caliber GP11 Blue dialled Accurist before, but I've not worn it much as the strap I put it on originally was a little too stiff and inflexible. I thought it was a bit of a wast to just leave it potentially gathering dust, so decided to treat it to a new soft silicone/nylon strap from the bargain bins on AliExpress. There are thousands of straps on AliExpress, and some of them are well worth the "not very much" they cost, so long as you are prepared to wait for them to ship half way round the world. The strap I plumped for eventually was described as "Official 22mm Nylon Strap For HUAWEI WATCH Silicone Band GT 4 46mm Watch 4 Pro GT 3 2 Pro Sports Composite Wristbands Bracelet" In other words, a 22mm silicone/nylon band with quick release pins. It cost a mere one pound forty seven pence, with free shipping since I include it with a bunch of other stuff. I'm very pleased with it so far. The quality seems well in excess of the price I paid.

When the spring is set and it's diameter has got smaller, heating it will enlarge the spring to it's original diameter. As the springs have memory, they say. Enlarging will happen immediately when heated. Long time heating will take out the hydrogen atoms that has got with the time inside the structure of the steel and cause it to be crunchy.

Hi Bob, I must say that there is not such thing as overbanking in verge movements. The balance movement is limited to +/- 90 degr., in french movements may be +/-100. Normal amplitude is 60-65 degr., in good french movements even 70. When the verge (the balance staff) has flags, the movement of the balance is limited by obsticles where the flags hit in early english movements (limitation by the flags), or with a pin on the balance rim in french and late english movements (limitation by the balance rim). Limitation is needed because if the balance is turned more, then the crown wheel will get free and will start turning fast. And when balance (verge) is returned to normal position, the crown wheel teeth will hit the flags and will grind themselves wearing fast for only a moment as if they have worked for many years. No mater what the torque is, the balance will not get to the points of movement limitation. Actually, the amplitude barely depends on torque. Limitation is needed when the movement is shaken or rotated suddenly, thus balance received additional impulse If the limitation is not enough and turning the balance in some of directions causes freeing of the crown wheel (worst case) or locking of the escapement where the balance stays rotated to the limit, this will usually mean that the engagement of the crown wheel with the verge is not deep enough. But it is possible for example that the verge is rotated against the balance wheel and when limitation is by the balance rim, this makes limitation not symmetrical - the problem will happen in only one direction of balance rotation, an in the other direction the movement of verge will be far away from problem. Another reason is verge replaced with not proper one, wear of flags and crown wheel teeth... I don't see clearly what type the verge on the picture is. If it has things similar to flags cut between the disks, then it needs limitation of the balance movement. In this case the cross section of the 'flag' part is flat and goes to the middle of the disks, like real flag. If the cross section of the 'flag' is just half circle (yes, such verges exist), then no additional limitation of balance movement is needed, the movement is limited by 'flags' hitting the crown wheel teeth. When all in a verge movement is OK, then it will start working by itself, without need of giving impulse to the balance. More - it will be not possible to stop such movement, as balance will start oscillating immediately after releasing no mater in what position it was halted. To bring the movement in such condition, it is needed very lo friction in bearings of the balance, crown wheel and 4th wheel. Free oscillations test will show the condition of balance pivots/bearings. As verge movements are ones with recoil, the energy is constantly transferred from mainspring to the balance (when the crown wheel is turning forward) and back from balance to the mainspring (when the crown wheel turns back). That's why the crown wheel, the 4th and even 3th have very thin pivots and the rear crown wheel bearing has axial steel plate, acting the same as cap jewel. It is important to have all the bearings in perfect condition and the mesh between wheels and pinions to be correct.

Sorry, I do not take in repairs. Short of pulling out the movement you can try to freshen up some of the pivots on the back plate. Also add a dot of lube to the pallet pins. Maybe move the regulator to middle and see if that has any impact.

Then you're ready to jump from this clunky Westclox to a fine Swiss quarter repeater.

Absolutely, my first pocket watch. I couldn't say if this was big but handwinding the mainspring into this 19mm barrel, thats as big as small watch, was................. different .

These dollar movements (Westclox, Ingersoll, Ingraham) are probably more like clocks than watches overall.

We build control panels so knocking up an enclosure with ventilation and interlock wouldn't be a problem.

It should be possible Hector, the heat buildup and time would be limiting though. Hobby EDM is coming now, pretty much in the same place 3d printing was in 2013-15 with home brew kits. Looks promising though. Tom

Well done with the spring, you nailed it matey, almost literally, needled it

yes i did

Rich, 'curling' or shaping mainspring is useless thing. Put it in the barrel, wind it to the end, then take it out and see what it looks like - it will be the same as it was before the shaping. What You can do is to heat the spring to let say 270 degr celsius and hold it for 2 hours at this temperature. You will be amazed from the change in the shape. But don't expect much more amplitude - almost no change there.

That's the diameter of the shaft.

Very cool idea… might be spending some time in photoshop…

Big thumbs up for AI (Andy Intelligence)

Do you guys do house calls to find springs and cap jewels?

Ohhhh H you are a pedantic soul

Sorry, can't help myself. It's ELMA Red 1:9

Why are you losing the stones RIch? I haven't lost one for quite a while (tempting fate). I don't put them in the ultrasonic baskets any more - too hard to find them! I use an old contact lens case, so I can keep the top and bottom jewels separate. A drop of cleaning solution and a minute floating in the ultrasonic, rinse in IPA and done. Yes, they do shine nicely under UV. The last one that pinged off, I found with a UV torch.

Whilst searching for replacement oils for Rolex lubricants I stumbled across a post by @JohnR725 where he linked to a copy of the AWCI publication that I had not seen before (the August 2012 issue). An interesting article describes Rolex lubricants by comparing their properties with those of Moebius equivalent lubricants. If you don't want to read the article, here is what I came up with (which I take no responsibility for): Rolex MR4 -> Moebius 9501 or Moebius 9504 Rolex LR2 -> Moebius 9415 Rolex TEPA -> Klüber P125 or Moebius Glissalube A 8213 (Brass barrel) I haven't found an alternative for Moebius 9103 (HP-1000) recommended by Rolex calibre 3135. Perhaps HP-1300 would do, or what do you think? Anyway, the reason I am writing this post is that in the process I found another 37 copies of AWCI's publication from January 2010 to January 2013. I have saved all of these on my OneDrive and you can find the link in the first post in this thread. Have fun!

I was encouraged to give it a try by this section in "Staking Tools and How to Use Them" (1910) though it's talking about pocket watches. (This publication is freely available online.) In my case, without any taper, I applied sideways pressure by hand. As you said, gently and little by little.

I'm one of those. I have an extremely low skin resistance and at those funfair strength testers where you grip two metal rods to test your "strength", all I have to do is lay one finger on each rod and the meter goes off the scale, the lights and alarms all go off. I recently changed a new pair of sneakers and the insulation must be really good because I store up a charge very quickly and touching anything that is grounded will give me a slight tingle. And this is in Singapore, where it's so humid that static electricity hardly ever builds up. But coming back to the watch, I don't think static electricity can affect the electronics as the metal watch case acts as a shield. The possible explanations I can think of for the puzzling problem is 1) Temperature - it could be your body heat is causing a bad solder joint or contact point open the circuit. You test this by heating up your watch in an oven or with a hairdryer. 2) Movement - it could be a loose contact that opens when jarred around. 3) Gravity - it could be a loose contact that comes open when the watch is no flat on its back.

I read a trick somewhere... get yourself a UV torch. The cap stones should shine brightly under UV. So if you are lucky you should just be able darken the room and wave the torch around until if jumps out at you!

Look like the fault was the cannon pinion was wrong and pressing down too hard on the plate making it tight to set time but also dragging on the amp and reserve. This one fits with a gap at the plate,suppose i could have reduced the depth of pinion or reset the center wheel indentations. Originally i replaced the mainspring with a thicker one that caused some rebank, the old one is now back in and has been running the watch for a day, this is the tg after one day, not regulated , cleaned or oiled and after some serious manhandling. Yes the lift angle is 65 ° visually accounted for unless someone had a different idea of an Oris 291 pin lever. Okaaay so now I'm on the lookout for one

My Type B flieger which is an aliexpress case & generic dial over a gorgeous hammered finish Swiss Unitas 6487 rescued from a silly looking 1970s Arnex pocket watch that had a pastoral farming scene on the dial. The 6498 was in basically new condition. I want to upgrade it with nicer crown & ratchet wheels though, and need to find a shorter sub seconds hand. This is at the extreme of what my bony wrist can manage, made worse by phone camera perspective tricks.

The idea of putting a slide rule in a watch is quite an old one. There is a nice example from the 1870s at the link below. https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/1089193/pocket-watch-slide-rule-calculator-calculigraphe-calculating-circle-bouchers-1878-system-hc-instructions/

Thanks. For the record, I managed to identify the flag. In the process of doing so, I asked ChatGPT to see if it could identify it, and it not only failed, but in the process it spun me a very convincing yarn. .. so the moral of the story is, that while AI may be able to provide answers, it doesn't necessarily provide *correct* answers. Incidentally what did manage to identify the image correctly was TinEye -> https://tineye.com/search/dd5e80f9b6aa99af3bfd86cc9763db88bba0a021?sort=score&order=desc&page=1 In summary, what I have is a custom Timex Indiglo maritime themed watch, which appears to be a relative rarity since I haven't found a match for it online. I presume it was something you could either purchase onboard, or perhaps was issued to staff, similar to my British Rail big Q watch. What has Fred Olsen got to do with Timex? ... you ask. Quite a lot as it happens. https://fortune.com/2015/03/07/fred-olsen/ They also "own" a large chunk of Scotland, and many years back were a customer of a company I worked for. https://www.discoverscotland.net/the-highest-peaks-in-dumfries-galloway/

Hi you can get parts/ tech sheets from cousins uk on therir down lost page, also print rest has some scattered about, cas ker, Esslingers, my retro watches, watch guy there is a few to trawl

I got together with @spectre6000 today, at his house, and did a comparison of his Amscope SM-4T to my Eakins equivalent. The conclusion was that the optics are identical between the two, giving the same FOV through the eyepieces. Taking my Hayear 14MP camera and C mount adapter and putting it on his microscope also gave identical FOV to mine. We found some minor differences on the heads. The grub screw for the camera port was larger on the Amscope. The housing on the Amscope had a hole on the left side. On the non-simul-focal model that hole is for the pull rod to enable the camera port and disable the left eyepiece. @spectre6000 said that his microscope came with a sticker over that hole, which he had removed. My Eakins doesn't have that hole at all. The zoom knob was slightly different in appearance. The camera adapters between the two are a different style. There's the previously noted difference in the stand being that the Amscope has the 3 chrome tightening handles, while the Eakins only has one chrome handle, a plastic knob, and a simple Allen screw. So, if you are in the market for a watchmaking microscope, Amscope and Eakins really seem to be made to pretty much the same specs, with some minor differences in hardware. I do think it likely that they are made in the same factory but maybe tailored slightly for each brand. Cost difference is the other consideration. Eakins is cheaper and you get more lenses with it. My Eakins came with 0.5X and 2.0X Barlow lenses and 10X and 20X eyepieces. With Amscope you have to order the 3.5X-180X variant, at extra cost, to get the same set of lenses. The Eakins has a metal ring light adapter while the Amscope has a plastic one.

@BobbyP you are unlikely to get an answer, this thread is from 2015 and Steven hasn’t visited this site in almost 4 years. Tom