Banking question! Not certain.

[Gary]

Hi Everyone,

 

I’m working on this Marvin 565. Breakdown went well and reassembly as well. Put it on the timegrapher and this is what I’m getting. I have “ping” way out of place. Should I tear it down again and clean and reassemble? It stayed in the cleaner around 30 minutes. I know it looks like the hairspring is out of sorts.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Gary

 

 

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[JohnR725]

What sort of cleaning fluid are you using? The reason I ask is some of the commercial fluids have ammonia 30 minutes and you'd be etching the plates. Remember cleaning is part of watch repair cleaning doesn't fix a watch necessarily.

Then  " I know it looks like the hairspring is out of sorts " Are you basing this on the timing machine results or visual confirmation that the hairspring is not right?

Then when timing on the timing machine it's usually nice to have different positions. Wristwatch versus pocket watches slightly different. So for both dial-up and dial down are nice. Pocket watches would have their pendant up and wrist watches the crown down. Timing in multiple positions helps you identify problems things don't always show up in one position. Then if you're looking for timing issues because the balances not evenly poised you would usually do a minimum of four pendant/crown positions. But I wouldn't worry about all those positions for now. For now dial up, dial down and crown down.

Then the photograph below isn't the best of your watch it looks like the stud is on a movable arm. If so you can put your watch in beat as 3.3 ms for a wristwatch it should be much closer to zero.

Then the random dots look random so I wouldn't worry about them for now. Cleaning the watch again isn't going to help. Then for lubrication how to do lubricate the watch particularly the escapement and where did you lubricate.

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Marvin_565

[clockboy]

Looking at your readings I would say there is not a lot wrong. Personally I would just re-clean the escapement side Ie hairspring assembly & pallets. It amazing how the tiniest amount of grease/dirt can cause this issue.

[Gary]

What sort of cleaning fluid are you using? The reason I ask is some of the commercial fluids have ammonia 30 minutes and you'd be etching the plates. Remember cleaning is part of watch repair cleaning doesn't fix a watch necessarily.
Then  " I know it looks like the hairspring is out of sorts " Are you basing this on the timing machine results or visual confirmation that the hairspring is not right?
Then when timing on the timing machine it's usually nice to have different positions. Wristwatch versus pocket watches slightly different. So for both dial-up and dial down are nice. Pocket watches would have their pendant up and wrist watches the crown down. Timing in multiple positions helps you identify problems things don't always show up in one position. Then if you're looking for timing issues because the balances not evenly poised you would usually do a minimum of four pendant/crown positions. But I wouldn't worry about all those positions for now. For now dial up, dial down and crown down.
Then the photograph below isn't the best of your watch it looks like the stud is on a movable arm. If so you can put your watch in beat as 3.3 ms for a wristwatch it should be much closer to zero.
Then the random dots look random so I wouldn't worry about them for now. Cleaning the watch again isn't going to help. Then for lubrication how to do lubricate the watch particularly the escapement and where did you lubricate.
 
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Marvin_565

I use L&R cleaners and Rinse in and L&R machine. Clean and rinse was long by my standards. Usually I do 15 min. The Dd position is +5sd. I may need to clean the balance again. With the BE I thought it may be knocking.
Thanks and I will update later!
Gary


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[Gary]

Looking at your readings I would say there is not a lot wrong. Personally I would just re-clean the escapement side Ie hairspring assembly & pallets. It amazing how the tiniest amount of grease/dirt can cause this issue.

Clock boy I think I will try to reclaim the escapement again! Thanks and I will repost results!
Gary


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[JohnR725]

Cleaning fluids are interesting in how they work. The ammonia is nice in that it brightens the plates is what makes everything look really nice and shiny will take a little bit a tarnish off. But go past a certain point and it starts to etch things the solution turns a really pretty blue color. Then if you go for extreme like the story of a watchmaker went on vacation and left the watch in the cleaning machine he was looking for a new movement but that is unlikely to happen to most of us hopefully.

Then there is the other problem cleaning solutions require help? So if you have hard dry oil in the jewels then the cleaning fluid is not going to clean that off. This is where toothpicks and or peg wood to remove the oil first. Cleaning is really a multi-step process is not just toss it in the cleaner and leave it until everything is off it's more the final step of cleaning anything really nasty gummy bad needs to come off first.

Then random dots are not knocking or rebanking The video below explains that. So you have to have really high amplitude and I've attached images. In one image it just occurred one time you can see a gap the other was a little more severe. So it's very visible on the timing machine it's not a single random.here and there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcqrb3_vin8

 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, clockboy said:

It amazing how the tiniest amount of grease/dirt can cause this issue.

Escapement lubrication? Old lubrication, no lubrication and improperly applied lubrication can cause issues also that will be visible on the timing machine.

[jdm]

11 hours ago, Gary said:

I have “ping” way out of place. Should I tear it down again and clean and reassemble?

As mentioned it looks fine overall. I would just do the best regulation possible and nothing else.

Sometimes adjusting gain on the machine helps eliminating spurious readings. Of course make sure you're testing in a quiet environment.

[Gary]

Thanks for the feedback and advice? The crown wheel screw broke off so the barrel plate is soaking in alum and water to remove the leftover screw. I have cleaned and lubricated the escape side again. Once I reassemble I will update withe the new results!
Awesome responses and thank you, everyone!

G


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[Deggsie]

Looking at your readings I would say there is not a lot wrong. Personally I would just re-clean the escapement side Ie hairspring assembly & pallets. It amazing how the tiniest amount of grease/dirt can cause this issue.

I recently had a similar issue. I re-cleaned the hair spring and the problem went away.


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[Gary]

Update!

I cleaned again and lubricated. The ping seems to be less frequent and I will have to work on the beat error later this week. That said, overall performance is much better. I do need a second hand as this one is missing.
Thanks again for all the help!
Cheers,
Gary


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[clockboy]

Yes a great improvement if you get it in beat then I suspect that odd blip will go as well. A 3.4ms is way to much error. The  recommended error rate is no more than 0.4ms.

[Gary]

Thought I would place a photo of the watch as well ! We all love the pics! I wish Marvin kept better records as I would love to know the approximate age.With the dial style and the case I am venturing a guess around 30's to 40's? 

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Edited April 17, 2018 by Gary

[rodabod]

Loos like a pretty good timegrapher reading to me. I think people get a bit carried away with beat error now that it's so easy to measure, whereas the amplitude is arguably more important. You've got a good amplitude, so as long as it's in poise then it should keep good time.