4205 seiko to a NH05
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In my daily work as a .NET teacher and programmer, I use ChatGPT all the time, and it works beyond all expectations. It's mind-blowingly good! So, am I a fool to ask ChatGPT about the Calibre 3135 I'm currently working on? Well, I did, and I'm in shock. Please let me know what you think. Is ChatGPT simply shooting from the hip, or could there be even a sliver of truth behind its bold claims? For example, it claims it sees Incabloc, but we can clearly see KIF. However, overall, ChatGPT is clearly negative to the movement in the images I uploaded (see below). I still think I'm working on a genuine 3135, but I'm not sure I'm going to sleep very well tonight. Sure, it's not my watch, but I just hate clones. You said: I'm servicing and repairing a Rolex Sea-Dweller ref. 16600. However, on the movement cal. 3135, I have found some blued screws, for example holding the date indicator seating in place. As far as I know, Rolex never use blued screws. Could this be a fake/clone movement? Would a picture help? ChatGPT said: Yes, a picture would definitely help—please upload a clear, close-up photo of the blued screws and the surrounding components. That will make it easier to assess whether the movement is genuine or a clone. You're absolutely right that Rolex does not use blued screws in the 3135 movement or any modern movement. Their screws are typically polished steel, sometimes rhodium-plated, but never heat-blued like you’d find in vintage pocket watches or some decorative movements. If you're seeing bright blue or deep purple screws, that's highly suspicious. Here are a few possibilities: Aftermarket modification – Someone may have serviced the movement and replaced original screws with decorative ones (unusual and bad practice for a Rolex). Parts swap – It's possible the movement has been assembled from mixed sources, using parts from clones or aftermarket kits. Clone movement – Some high-end replica watches use cloned 3135 movements with visible differences, and blued screws are a common telltale sign in fakes. Chinese “Super Clone” movements – These often mimic the 3135 quite closely but include blue screws and other subtle giveaways like inferior finishing, incorrect jewel placement, or engraving differences. If you can, try to also capture: The engravings under the balance wheel (bridge number). The layout of the automatic winding bridge. Any serial or caliber markings. Would you like a side-by-side comparison checklist between a genuine 3135 and a common clone? You said: ChatGPT said: Thanks for the excellent photos. Based on what I can see: 1. Blued Screws (First Image) The screws are clearly heat-blued, not chemically colored or anodized. These are not standard for any Rolex 3135 component—Rolex does not use blued screws in modern movements, especially not for the date indicator seating. This alone is a major red flag. 2. Movement Plate (Second Image) The finishing is quite neat at first glance, with perlage (circular graining) that mimics Rolex’s 3135 layout. However, several things suggest this movement is not a genuine Rolex 3135: 🔍 Notable signs of a likely clone: The perlage is too uniform and "machine-perfect"; Rolex finishing is more subtly varied. The bridge edges are not properly beveled or polished—Rolex does this meticulously. The screw heads are mirror-polished, but the slots show machining burrs and inconsistency, which would never pass Rolex QC. Blued screws are visible on the lower plate (again: never used by Rolex). The gearwork (e.g., date jumper and star wheel) looks coarser than the precision finishing expected from a 3135. Tentative conclusion: This movement appears to be a high-quality clone of the Rolex 3135—possibly from a replica Sea-Dweller 16600. These clones are sometimes called “super clones” or “3135 look-alikes,” and some are visually quite convincing until you inspect the movement up close, as you've done. Next Steps: If you want to confirm definitively, here’s what you can do: Check the balance cock engraving (should say "3135" and have the Rolex crown). Inspect the mainplate under the dial for “Rolex” markings and engravings—genuine ones are laser-etched. Look under the rotor (if still attached)—genuine rotors have distinct Rolex markings and finish. Would you like a close visual comparison between this and a confirmed authentic 3135 movement? You said: If I upload a picture of the rotor (underside) can you help me assess if it's real or fake? ChatGPT said: Absolutely—please go ahead and upload the picture of the rotor (underside). I’ll compare it against known details from genuine Rolex 3135 rotors and highlight any inconsistencies that may point to it being fake or aftermarket. You said: ChatGPT said: Thanks. This underside view of the rotor reveals clear signs that this is not a genuine Rolex 3135 rotor: Key indicators of a fake or clone rotor: 1. Rotor Weight Design The Rolex 3135 rotor has a solid bimetal construction: a 22k gold outer weight laser-welded to a nickel base. This one appears to be entirely steel-colored—no trace of gold, and the weight appears milled rather than bonded. That’s a strong sign it’s not genuine. 2. Milling Marks and Finishing The milling marks on your rotor are radial and rough, typical of CNC-machined clone parts. A genuine 3135 rotor shows: A clean, uniform satin finish. High polish or precise bead blasting on the weight. No machining burrs or uneven edges, unlike the rotor here, especially near the slots and screw holes. 3. Engraving and Lack of Markings The underside of a genuine Rolex 3135 rotor typically includes: Reference numbers. Rolex hallmarks or laser-engraved stamps, sometimes extremely fine. Your rotor is completely void of any markings—very unusual for Rolex, which tends to over-brand even internal components. 4. Bearing Assembly The central bearing looks relatively crude. On genuine 3135 rotors, the bearing is: Press-fit with high precision, often with fine polishing. Shows signs of superior finishing under magnification. This rotor’s bearing finish and installation quality are more consistent with aftermarket or replica manufacture. Verdict: This rotor is not from a genuine Rolex 3135 movement. It's very likely from a clone movement, possibly Chinese (like those found in Noob, VSF, or other high-end replica factories). Combined with the blued screws and other finishing signs, I’d say the movement as a whole is a well-made but fake 3135 clone. Thanks—this is a great view of the movement’s watchmaker side, and it gives us a lot more to work with. Here’s what stands out: 1. Balance Bridge & Screws • The balance bridge and its geometry look broadly similar to a genuine 3135, but: o The screws holding the bridge are flat-slotted instead of Rolex’s usual Polished Torx-style (star) screws, which are a major hallmark. o The finishing on the bridge lacks the ultra-fine beveling and high polish Rolex applies. 2. Shock Protection • The balance jewel cap looks like a standard Incabloc-style system, not Rolex’s proprietary KIF shock protection, which is standard on the 3135. 3. Engraving & Surface Finish • The “3135” engraving appears rough and shallow—on genuine movements, it’s deeper, more precise, and often filled with gold paint or ink. • The general brushing and perlage across plates lacks the consistency and sharpness Rolex is known for. 4. General Layout • While the gear train layout and architecture are visually close, the bridge shapes, cutouts, and certain edges are just slightly off in ways that a trained eye will spot. These are typically clone-level approximations. Final Verdict: This movement is not a genuine Rolex Caliber 3135. It’s a high-quality clone, very likely of Chinese origin (often from factories that make replica ETA clones or “Super Clone” Rolex movements). These clones can be surprisingly accurate in dimensions and layout but deviate in key finishing and technical details like: • Shock system (no KIF) • Screw styles • Engraving quality • Finishing consistency -
I am practising bluing screws. I am using a soldering station with good temp control (I have adjusted the thermostat to increase the temp beyond the 400°C limit). I have a stainless steel bowl with a bed of brass shavings and a thermocouple to measure the actual temp in the bed. My issues are: 1. The temp I found to get to blue was well above the slated 310°C. 2. I was at something like 370°C to get a decent blue. 3. I am only able to blue the head of the screw (the surface that I had polished). 4. Even with cheating the thermostat, I was only able to get the bed up to 458°C. That still was not sufficient to blue the remainder of the screw, it only got this to a straw colour. Can anyone advise on what I'm doing wrong, or need to do differently to blue the whole screw. Also, why is the temperature so far above what's quoted for bluing steel? All advice/insights will be gratefully received. -
He's trying to tell you something like this isn't really a good plan. Just a reminder of something when they quote something from the other page when I looked up your serial numbers Estimated Production Year: 1937 Run Quantity: 4,000 Grade/Model Run: 310 of 329 Estimated Production Year: 1917 Run Quantity: 2,000 Grade/Model Run: 127 of 329 You will note that one of your watches was a batch of 2000 made in 1917 and the other was a batch of 4000 made in 1937. Then did you notice how the main plate has a serial number the complete serial number? Then all the rest of the bridges have a partial of that serial number and typically the serial number is also scribed on the balance wheel. The problem with manufacturing when these watches were made was that there were variations as you can see the balance bridges do not interchange because they're not of the same batch. Basically what happens is the main plate is made the bridges are made there assembled together and then the holes for the wheels the jewels etc. are done when everything is assembled as this is the only way they have to get all of the alignments absolutely perfect. Then each of the escapement's and balance wheels are adjusted for each watch. -
I've never been able to find any information on jewel sizes. -
I had thought about doing that. Is there a concern that if I can't get the crown off that the water from rust remover and penetrating oil might get trapped within the crown/stem assembly?
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