Jump to content
  • 0
scholzie

How can I reattach the hairspring to the stud?

Question

While disassembling a Unitas 6497 (or during subsequent reassembly) I slightly deformed the hairspring, and to fix it I removed the wheel from the balance cock and then the hairspring from the wheel. The balance cock is of the Etachron type, so the index pin is simply clipped into the stud support. The spring sits inside a notch on the underside of the pin, and is secured in place with some sort of gummy, flexible adhesive (instead of a tiny pin, as I've seen elsewhere).

Anyway, I had a lot of trouble getting the spring stud back into the stud support, and after about an hour of man-handling the glue finally gave out and the spring came loose. Now I have a spring (in perfect condition, thank you very much!) and stud I need to reattach to each other.

What kind of adhesive is this? What are some accepted ways of reattaching the spring? I saw someone on the internet use shellac, but 1) I don't think that was the correct thing to do (this stuff was flexible, and probably for a reason) and 2) I don't have shellac or know how to use it regardless.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for any help you can offer!

Here are some pictures to help visualize what I'm talking about:

IMG_5434.thumb.jpg.656c6d05c568ddd68651c7c30d5ab815.jpg

IMG_5436.thumb.jpg.130688aa87342ba5b35dbf1b4d7a2903.jpg

Edited by scholzie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recommended Posts

  • 1
10 hours ago, clockboy said:

Can to attach with a normal hairspring pin. If so it's much easier than messing with glue. 

 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/hairspring-collets-pins-pocket-watch

This particular one is not possible to pin unfortunately. The best remedy is to clean out the old adhesive and apply new. I would use a slower drying epoxy (very very small amount applied using a clock oiler for example). Apply when the glue is tacky enough to hold the spring in place so you can test if it is correctly positioned. Once you are convinced of its correct position along the length of the end of the spring then leave it to set.

Do this with the stud re-attached to the index but the hairspring not attached to the balance staff so that you can check the position of the hairspring collet being directly over the pivot hole. This will make it easier for you to observe that the spring is straight and true on the stud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
13 minutes ago, clockboy said:

Can to attach with a normal hairspring pin. If so it's much easier than messing with glue. 

 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/hairspring-collets-pins-pocket-watch

I honestly have no idea if I can do that or not. I don't know the first thing about how to use those pins or if they'd work with the etachron stud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

This is not a fitting that uses pins. The hairspring is held in place by that greenish stuff in the slot. I would clean out that greenish stuff first, I think a tiny drop of Loctite should do the trick as this is commonly used to bond metal so there shouldn't be any problem in it affecting the hairspring.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
This particular one is not possible to pin unfortunately. The best remedy is to clean out the old adhesive and apply new. I would use a slower drying epoxy (very very small amount applied using a clock oiler for example). Apply when the glue is tacky enough to hold the spring in place so you can test if it is correctly positioned. Once you are convinced of its correct position along the length of the end of the spring then leave it to set.
Do this with the stud re-attached to the index but the hairspring not attached to the balance staff so that you can check the position of the hairspring collet being directly over the pivot hole. This will make it easier for you to observe that the spring is straight and true on the stud.

Thank you Mark! Any particular brand or type of epoxy you'd suggest, or can I use any slow drying epoxy made for metals?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Hot glue probably would have worked a charm, actually. I used a Devcon epoxy with 60m working time, applied with the tip of a sharpened x-acto blade. I don't have spare oilers like all you old timers :P. I'm brand new to this hobby so I don't have spares of anything!

 

The epoxy seems to have worked fine. And by some grace of His Noodly Appendage, the hairspring collet sits nearly perfectly centered over the pivot hole on the balance cock even after all it's been through.

 

I'm going to remove it one last time, give it a rinse in naphtha and denatured alcohol, and put it all back together.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

just wanted to thank you guys for this post. I have exactly the same problem on a Seiko movement. I think  the cleaning fluid removed / degraded the fixing. I now have to reposition the hair spring to the stud. What is your opinion on using superglue? I think I will use Devcon epoxy 60 min.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Hi all. Just wondering is there any videos on the Etachron balance that I could refer to?

I really want to get this right.

Edited by Colditz
Forgot to tick notify me of replies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

 I wouldn,t glue anything unassembled. Since as the glue dries out, you are facing a set  HS- STUD  position which may render the HS unlevel, coned .. once assembled.

So, once I position the collet right over the jewel hole and regulator pin along the lenght of HS end checks alright. I assemble the HS on the wheel ,run HS through slots in regulator and stud and install on mainplate with the cock screwed tight.  Everything positioned right as should be . I will then place the mainplate on a level surface. cock facing down, Stud slot facing up. What I see is what I get if I glue at this time, since the glue dries out holding the HS at this position where we know the pivots ( final position ) are inside the jewel hole and approved the configuration and levelness of HS etc before applying the glue.

To apply the glue, put only as much as you need(  to fill the slud slot)on flat face of your screwdrive tip, lumped as wide as the stud slot. No more, excess glue runs and ends up where not welcomed. The stud slot was faced up, if faced down even small amount of glue  can drip out of the slot and end up on BW.  The next day you find everything exactly as you approved,  I remove the cock-Hs  rinse ready for assembly. 

Should there be a need, I removed  and soak the Stud-HS section in acetone or burn the glue by heat with soldering gun.

Regards

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Thanks Nucejoe.

I think I will follow your advice. I'd rather have the balance in position and stable on the plate than floating around. I will let you know how it goes and I will try and take pictures or a short video.

Can I upload a video to here?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Hi colditz,

As long as you pick small amount of gule and on one side of screwdriver only ( avoid having glue on both sides of the blade) and ofcourse not runny glue, you are likely to get near perfect results.

Facts are, we don,t have a full top view of HS when installed even less in motion, even if we did, manipualtion is limited to external section of HS. All is most reachable when outside. So why risk damaging the perfecrion we worked for, glue the perfection in. No need to spend hours, days to master installed HS manipulation.

Furthuremore I shim the external circumference of bridge to lower the bridge jewel, so it keeps the balance wheel from turning as turning  may let the HS to slip out of glue before it dries.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
9 hours ago, Colditz said:

Thanks Nucejoe.

I think I will follow your advice. I'd rather have the balance in position and stable on the plate than floating around. I will let you know how it goes and I will try and take pictures or a short video.

Can I upload a video to here?

 

I think you can upload, see others done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 12:26 AM, Nucejoe said:

I think you can upload, see others done.

Hi Nucejo

I have purchased a new digital microscope so we will see what is can do. Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
45 minutes ago, Colditz said:

What is denatured alcohol?

 

I suspect that is only available in the U.S.A.   They change the nature of ethanol into a poison substance so we cannot drink it and cheat our rulers out of their proper taxes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
42 minutes ago, Colditz said:

Hi Nucejo

I have purchased a new digital microscope so we will see what is can do. Cheers

Hi, I shim the cock outbound ( pig,s ear with a piece of aluminum foil) to temoprarily lower the cock jewel so to prevent the wheel from turning. And mix the epoxy( not runny) after all is set up, smother the expoxy( using a safety razor) on a flat surface( piece of cardboard or glass etc) thin like .25 mm or less, all this just to have good control over the amount of epoxy you pick up,  avoid picking excess epoxy ( so if your hand moves/ shakes no expoxy would be on the sides of the blade to get on other parts. Apply the glue and leave stud slot face up. You should have some acetone ready, to immediately  rinse if any part get messed up with epoxy. Some epoxy may inevitably ran down the slot, which can later be scraped off.

You should expect perfect results. No hard task for a horologist.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Similar Content

    • By canthus
      I work a lot on small caliber (ladies watch size) movements but still have mishaps with the balance hairspring.  These hairsprings are very fragile and easily bent and removing/replacing the balance assembly seems to be my problem.  I would like any comments on the risks of deforming the hairspring by allowing the wheel to dangle during handling.  I would also like to know if the position of the regulator arm/pins has any effect re risk of deforming the spring, should it be close to the stud or as far a possible from the stud, I normally leave it where I find it so the timing is close to what it was before dis-assembly.  Any advice on techniques etc will be much appreciated.
    • By rduckwor
      I am correcting a deformed hairspring and need to set the curve for the regulator pins.  De Carle mentions using curve-forming tweezers, which I cannot yet find.  What are the alternate practices for forming this curved portion of the over curve?
      Thanks,
       
      RMD
    • By Nost
      Hi again all,
      since there are some really knowledgeable people here I hope you can impart some wisdom regarding repairing a bent hair spring. after getting this old movement working again with the help of this group (new mainspring), I need a little more advice.
      after hooking this beaut up to  watch-a-scope it shows low amplitude and very erratic trace. I can see the hairspring is bent and need to start here in addressing the issue.
      What tools are needed (not willing to spend £50 on hairspring levers at the moment)? I have basic tools  (enough to service a movement), but what are the essentials for working on a hairspring? i.e for removing from a balance safely what tweezers types/sizes are recommended for correction etc.
      Also, is there an easy way to identify and obtain replacement hairsprings? I assume they are very interchangeable as it would not have been easy to make new hairsprings for every watch model.
       
       
    • By tmilligan
      Question for those who work on Vintage Timex watches:
      I've restored several Timex pieces from the late '60s to the late '70s.  The technique I learned (from Internet posts and tutorials) say to simply loosen the dial-side balance pivot by unscrewing it 1/2 turn prior to cleaning the entire movement in an ultrasonic cleaner.  This method contradicts the official Timex service manuals, which state that the balance should be removed, cleaned separately and reinstalled.  Thus preventing the hairspring form being damaged in the ultrasonic cleaner.
      My experience is this: 
      Leaving the balance in place (slightly loosened) is much easier and will work on the standard movements used in the '70s (M24/25, M32/33, M104, etc.) Attempting the same method on movements from the '50s and '60s (M22, M29, etc) will result in a kinked hairspring that is damn near impossible to un-kink.  So my question is this:
      What do you experienced Timex restoration experts recommend?  Leave the balance/hairspring in the movement for cleaning, or take it out to soak in a separate jar?
      Is the potential for hairspring damage greater when removing/reinstalling the balance - in comparison to leaving it in place?
      I've messed up a couple of vintage movements that I really wish I hadn't.   I don't want to make those mistakes again.
      Thanks for any insights!
        -Todd
       
    • By marcoskaiser
      Dear all,
      I recently had the pleasure of finding a damaged hairspring needing care. My first! It’s an inexpensive orient watch, gaining 20 minutes a day. I am taking Mark’s fault finding course, and have other inexpensive hairsprings to practise with. I also got some vintage tools I’d love to use. Until now for me levellers were only the Oliver Cromwell people, but ebay never ceases to surprise...
      I could pass the first stages of correcting the coil, with two tweezers. But could not find a use for the vintage tools. Could you help me to figure it out? 
      Picture 1 is the bent hairspring 
      picture 2 and 3 the box of tas levellers
      picture 4 is the hairspring suffering under my tweezers now
      picture 5 shows the tip of the tools
      picture 6: from De Carle. Would this be the purpose of the levellers? The overcoil? 






  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • What is a "Ligne"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne To convert https://www.convertunits.com/from/ligne+[France]/to/mm  
    • Hi well done jdm  a very comprehensive walk through. Anone working on the same movement would do well to read this before starting. excellent.  As regards the non cleaning of clean parts screws an plastic wheels I can see where you are coming from and respect that opinion, I also see Old Hippy's point of view,  being trained old school and very correct its hard to change. But as you say it works for you with no problems so therefore you do it your way. I have done it both ways and had no problems with either. Thanks again for a good and instructive walk through. 
    • I've used enamel paint (as you'd just get from a model shop) with good results.  I suspect the lacquer you've found is the same thing ... but perhaps thinned to a consistency that makes it easier to apply. When painting you want to do it in one stroke; don't be tempted to go back and fiddle as you'll be less likely to get a smooth finish. One coat is usually fine but if you think you need a second wait until the first is fully dried first. 
    • Its a early Landeron possibly a Calibre 13, only way to identify for sure would be a pic of the keyless works, Eberhard in my experience from a number of years ago are a very good company to deal with if you require parts they will supply if they have them in stock, they also seem to have good factory records so if you contact them with the serial number they may be able to help.
    • Very much appreciated, this walk-through. It's amazing how much quicker I can work if I don't have to photograph everything! I have removed the balance cap-jewels and settings for cleaning. I'm confident I can put these back OK. There are two other cap jewels held by Diafix springs on the barrel and train-wheel bridge, for the escape wheel and third wheel. These are smaller, and look like a challenge. Before I do something I'll regret, what are your opinions? a). Leave well alone, no need to tempt fate or b) Absolute must, if you are doing a proper job
×
×
  • Create New...