Vostok Amphibia

[KayMan]

I'm very new to watch repair so I've experimented with a few scrap watches from ebay and had modest success in improving them.  I think I'm ready to tackle something more than a basic movement so I recently won an automatic Vostok Amphibia with a 2416B movement that was said to be new but not working.

 It does indeed look new, with all the plastic protection still in place.  However after winding it worked very well, gaining 20 seconds per day.  I could see nothing wrong with it so wore it for 3 days.  Then it stopped dead and no amount of gentle shaking would persuade the second hand to budge.  Off with the back and I found the balance will turn anticlockwise with no problem and spring back, but it will not turn clockwise at all because something is preventing it from moving.  

Not only that, but on removing the back a tiny washer/shim fell out.  I've shown it beside the watch below.  It measures 2mm dia by 0.06mm thick and is ferrous.  

The next stage is to strip the movement and find out what's going on but I thought I should ask advice here before diving in.  So, questions:

• I'm guessing something is not right in the balance/pallet/escapement area - should I look for anything in particular?
• What is that washer for?!  Is it even part of the movement or is it from the assembly machinery in the factory?  I'm hoping someone with 2416B experience can identify it and tell me where it should go.
• Other than taking usual care, is there anything particular that I should beware of when stripping this movement?

All help greatly appreciated!

Kevin

 

[rogart63]

No idea where the washers should be? But you are missing the screw next to the rotor screw? Probably is there inside somewhere?

[DouglasSkinner]

First question: make sure the impulse jewel is in the pallet fork (between the two tines).  Last question: try and remove  the automatic works as a unit i.e., try not to disassemble it, you'll have a lot more work if you do.

[Marc]

Hi Kevin

That's a very nice SCUBA Dude you have there.

That little washer looks suspiciously like the washer that goes on the crown wheel screw arrowed

If it is then it means that the crown wheel screw must be adrift somewhere in the movement which could be the cause of the stoppage. Beware when it comes to dealing with this screw though as it is a lefty even though it isn't marked as such.

Have a look here for a walk through on another 2416b Amphibia (also a blue SCUBA Dude);

Just ask if you have any issues when you do yours.

Good luck, and enjoy.

[KayMan]

@rogart63: I think you may be right!  I've looked at a library shot of the 2416b and it does show a screw there, which is conspicuously absent from mine.  What's more it looks as though it has a washer under it.  Good observation, thanks.

@DouglasSkinner: Excellent advice, thank you.  Tomorrow I'll start disassembly and I will remove the auto works as a unit if I can.

@Marc: It's a green Scuba Dude actually, just my poor photography.  Thanks for the advice but I think rogart63 might be right.  It definitely looks like there's a screw missing from just  under the rotor.  Good link for the walk through, thanks for that.

Cheers guys, I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

[Marc]

2 hours ago, KayMan said:

Thanks for the advice but I think rogart63 might be right.  It definitely looks like there's a screw missing from just  under the rotor.

I think that we are both right.

Arrow A points to the auto bridge screw, arrow B points to a hole that goes through the auto bridge to provide clearance for and access to the crown wheel screw, which is definitely not there. The good news is that it doesn't look as if the screw has been sheared off which is not uncommon as it is a left hand thread so unless you know, there is a risk of ringing it off by trying to undo it the wrong way. My guess is that once you have the auto bridge out of the way you'll find the little sucker jamming the train wheels.

[KayMan]

Ok, time for a progress report methinks.  Good news/bad news:  you guys were right about the crown wheel screw, which I found jamming the pallet.  Once reassembled all bar the rotor, dial and hands, it clearly wants to tick which is gratifying.

BUT.... It won't wind manually.

After taking off the auto bridge to expose the screwless crown wheel I thought I'd better let down the mainspring before proceeding.  However I didn't give a thought that my usual method of holding back the click and controlling the release of tension via the crown probably wasn't the best way of doing it given the unrestrained crown wheel situation.  There was a slight crunch sound, the crown wheel jumped up and I thought I saw something fly off.  Schoolboy error I know. Two detailed searches of the room with the aid of magnets, torches and magnifiers failed to find anything other than toast crumbs and sock fluff, so I hoped against hope that all would be ok.

While reassembling I noticed that the crown wheel has a recess on one side and seemed to fit either way up.  I couldn't determine from pictures which was the right way up so elected to install it with the recess uppermost i.e. the same side as the screw head.  Have I got that right?

With the bare movement minus rotor, dial etc I inserted the stem to find that when pulled out fully I can set the time but when pulled out to the first detent I cannot wind it.  The stem turns but has the crunchy feeling of slipping gear teeth.  Now the watch instructions make a thing of screwing the crown down before pulling out to wind.  With the movement out of the case there's nothing to screw it down to - could it simply be that that's causing the problem?

Apologies for this rather wordy report but I'd be grateful for opinions about which way up the crown wheel goes and any ideas about why it won't wind.

Kevin

[Marc]

First off I doubt that you have lost anything as the crown wheel screw only retains two items; the crown wheel and the little washer, so if you have both of those then all is present and correct.

You do however have the crown wheel upside down. The crown wheel is mounted to a sliding plate which allows it to move into and out of engagement with the ratchet wheel. The barrel bridge has a sort of oval shaped raised pillar through which the crown wheel sliding plate protrudes. The crown wheel goes recess down so that the oval pillar is within the recess which thus limits the sideways sliding of the crown wheel. If you mount the crown wheel the other way up then you reduce the vertical engagement of the crown and ratchet wheel teeth which could well result in slipping when you wind the watch manually. Flip the crown wheel over and you should be good to go.

The reference in the instructions to screwing the crown all the way in following setting the hands and before winding is simply to ensure that the keyless works have moved out of the setting position which doesn't otherwise happen without screwing the crown all the way in due to the lateral throw of the crown/stem decoupling set up. With the watch out of the case you can simply push the stem all the way in.

Apologies for the wordy response but I don't seem to have a pic of the barrel bridge that doesn't already have the crown wheel installed.

[KayMan]

I'm very pleased, having got it back together and it's ticking away nicely.  Thanks for your guidance Marc; once I'd put the crown wheel in the right way up it all worked a treat.  Just a bit of fiddling with the stem which didn't want to go in all the way at first.  Here's the ticking movement:

And here's the final outcome, on a cheap ebay bracelet until I find something better:

By the way my wife tells me it IS blue, but it still looks green to my weird eyes.

Cheers, Kevin

[SeikoWatch]

It's dark turquoise... In fact, it's a blue dark turquoise ...no green .. However, it's a beautiful watch you have 

[Marc]

Green Dude....? Blue Dude.... ? either way it's a very handsome Dude indeed, and it's great that you have got it back up and running.

They are actually very good but somewhat under rated watches with a very distinct character all of their own.

Nice result.

[Watchtime]

agree with Marc, very sturdy watches....I have a couple of vintage ones as i don't like the plastic spacer rings but that is a personal taste. Great watch.

[Davey57]

Great to see you got it running. What a nice looking watch.

[Davey57]

Might have known this would happen, you've got me looking a them now!

[KayMan]

Go for it, nothing ventured etc!

[awscreo]

Hi all!

I wanted to ask if anyone could help me with my Vostok situation. So I have a 710 vostok that I've been modding extensively (the only thing that's not swapped on the watch is the case and the movement) and really enjoying the process. A few days ago I attempted to swap the dial and hands. I let the watch run out charge over few days, removed the rotor to prevent winding, took the crown out, removed the hands and dial, got a new dial and hands on it, reversed the action. So the watch now works when it's lying dial down, but stops when I lift it up and turn it to me. It starts ticking again if I give it a good shake but eventually stops if I give it a slightest of bumps or movement while it's facing me. It seems to work fine when it's facing down. The hands turn normally, they're not touching each other while rotating etc. What could be causing this issue? 

I did take apart the movement few months ago when the new crown wouldn't lock in place and managed to get it working again, so it was running and kept very good time. This time however I just swapped hands and dial

[yankeedog]

Help sure but why not start a new thread? Since this problem started during a hand/dial change.I would start looking there.swap the old ones back and see what happens if it runs the new parts have induced a problem. The replace dial and hands one by one.