Replacing Jewels

[jdrichard]

So my next adventure in this hobby is replacing jewels. The picture has a jewel supported by a two screw holding ring ov some sort. How do you get this jewel out to replace it and then do you push it back in with a jewellers staking set? I have also purchased this block. Is there a simple way ov doing this using the block?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldhippy]

You undo the two small screws and the cup that holds the jewel should come away from the plate. You will need a proper jeweling tool set as this also has the reamers in case you need to make the diameter of the hole larger, you also press the jewel with the jeweling tool using one of the different stakes that are provided out.  You will need the correct type of jewel, pivot hole size and diameter of the jewel, a little larger in diameter of the whole jewel would still be alright but not overlarge. You also use the tool for pushing the new jewel in place, you have a setting depthing wheel to make sure you have the correct end shake so that the jewel hasn't been pushed too far into the plate. That block you have isn't needed for this type of work. All the necessary tools needed come in the jeweling set, you need to check what you are buying if second hand. One other thing the small press in setters are spring loaded this helps so the jewel doesn't crack when fitting. You will also need a pivot hole gauge and a jewel gauge if you buy your jewels by a varied selection. You also need to look up the types of jewels that are used in watches and the reason different ones are used.       

[jdrichard]

You undo the two small screws and the cup that holds the jewel should come away from the plate. You will need a proper jeweling tool set as this also has the reamers in case you need to make the diameter of the hole larger, you also press the jewel with the jeweling tool using one of the different stakes that are provided out.  You will need the correct type of jewel, pivot hole size and diameter of the jewel, a little larger in diameter of the whole jewel would still be alright but not overlarge. You also use the tool for pushing the new jewel in place, you have a setting depthing wheel to make sure you have the correct end shake so that the jewel hasn't been pushed too far into the plate. That block you have isn't needed for this type of work. All the necessary tools needed come in the jeweling set, you need to check what you are buying if second hand. One other thing the small press in setters are spring loaded this helps so the jewel doesn't crack when fitting. You will also need a pivot hole gauge and a jewel gauge if you buy your jewels by a varied selection. You also need to look up the types of jewels that are used in watches and the reason different ones are used.       

Thank you for taking the time to provide the relevant information. I have been thinking about purchasing a jewelling set but may wait until I am up to my neck with replacements needed. This is a bit of an investment. Would you recommend anything new?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldhippy]

All that you need here. The complete set.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/jewelling-tools-for-bergeon-kif-inca-seitz

As I said if you go for second hand make sure its good and has most of the pieces and if there are still replacement parts available for that make. You don't want anything rusty or badly worn. It is a precision instrument.  

[syfre]

Why do you want to replace it ? don't see any problem in your picture.

It's look like a 23j Waltham so it's a valuable watch. As oldhippy says changing a jewel is not so obvious ; second the method described is for friction jewels (the modern type) and these Waltham used jewels in setting (the jewel is burnished in the setting) . In the old time they were plenty of available parts and the watchmakers can replace easily the setting. Nowadays finding a replacement is a hard job.

In my opinion, replacing the setting by a friction jewel, even if it can be done, is not a good idea as this will  drop the value of this watch. The best option is to find a donor movement.

 

[jdrichard]

Why do you want to replace it ? don't see any problem in your picture.

It's look like a 23j Waltham so it's a valuable watch. As oldhippy says changing a jewel is not so obvious ; second the method described is for friction jewels (the modern type) and these Waltham used jewels in setting (the jewel is burnished in the setting) . In the old time they were plenty of available parts and the watchmakers can replace easily the setting. Nowadays finding a replacement is a hard job.

In my opinion, replacing the setting by a friction jewel, even if it can be done, is not a good idea as this will  drop the value of this watch. The best option is to find a donor movement.

 

Acknowledged and thanks. From a technique point if view, I see people pushing out the jewel and setting with a piece of carved peg wood, but how do you get one back in without a jewellers set tool ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[syfre]

this is for balance hole jewels, and you don't need a jewellers set tool to put these back; except if damaged train jewel don't need to be removed.

[jdrichard]

this is for balance hole jewels, and you don't need a jewellers set tool to put these back; except if damaged train jewel don't need to be removed.

Thanks. That's it for now...mainspring replacements and cleaning next week.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldhippy]

17 minutes ago, syfre said:

this is for balance hole jewels, and you don't need a jewellers set tool to put these back; except if damaged train jewel don't need to be removed.

He wants to practice in taking out and putting back jewels and asked the way to go about such a task and what tools he would need. It is most important to use the correct tool for the job, so if you are replacing jewels or resetting them into a watch plate or balance cock you use a jewelers staking tool set.   

[jdrichard]

He wants to practice in taking out and putting back jewels and asked the way to go about such a task and what tools he would need. It is most important to use the correct tool for the job, so if you are replacing jewels or resetting them into a watch plate or balance cock you use a jewelers staking tool set.   

Agree. I am the type that will take the effort to better technique. Like bottom dealing cards (also an amateur magicians)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[digginstony]

Oldhippy is perfectly correct. A jewelling tool is a must. The old waltham movements don't require a jewelling tool for the balance jewels because the "Setting" sits on an internal shoulder in the balance cock and main plate and can be removed and replaced with a piece of pegwood. Some can be quite tight to remove and can be, gently, tapped out with pegwood. When placing back, lightly push back in with pegwood until it stops on the internal shoulder (giving correct end shake ) then refit end stone.

Tony

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[jdrichard]

Oldhippy is perfectly correct. A jewelling tool is a must. The old waltham movements don't require a jewelling tool for the balance jewels because the "Setting" sits on an internal shoulder in the balance cock and main plate and can be removed and replaced with a piece of pegwood. Some can be quite tight to remove and can be, gently, tapped out with pegwood. When placing back, lightly push back in with pegwood until it stops on the internal shoulder (giving correct end shake ) then refit end stone.

Tony

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Thanks for the advice. I do plan on picking up a jeweling tool in the fall perhaps. No immediate need at this moment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rafal]

for replacing this type of balance jewels jewels you could use jewel pusher - it looks like sleeve wrench - ring with arms around - different size of arms for jewels. Problem with jewels mounted on the plate is, as it was mentioned above, it has to be set on certain height for fit and  shake - for that you would need jeweling set. Simple balance jewels are easier - peg wood or jewel pusher - so that investment is much smaller. For pusher is about 15-25$.

I couldnt find better auction but if you look at this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Watchmaker-Tool-Lot-/222150813140?hash=item33b93865d4:g:6sYAAOSw9k5XQjMQ  you will get an idea how jewel pusher looks like - star like tool on first picture.