Jump to content

Mainspring winders


Recommended Posts

But sometimes the arbor does not fit the mainspring for the correct size barrel and/or the other way round so it is useful to have a set - but even my set with 17 barrels both left and right hand cranks will not fit every mainspring/barrel combination, but the more sizes you have, the more chance you will have that you will have a correct combination.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was looking at this mainspring winder set which is for sale.  Does anyone have any experience with these?  Will they handle most wristwatch sizes?  I am trying to get the model number to see if I can find any more info regarding these.

Cheers!

Roger

Unfortunately, I lost the opportunity to buy the Watch-Craft set shown above.  Has anyone used the K&D 127 or 128 Mainspring Winders shown below?  Will both do wrist watches (I am not working on pocket watches)?  Any insight would be appreciated.

Cheers!

post-38-0-25205200-1388807319_thumb.jpg

post-38-0-85455400-1388807813_thumb.jpg

Edited by 64americandeluxe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is another set that I am looking at (see below).  Any advantages or cons to using the KD 126,127 or 128?  It looks like the only difference between the 127 and 128 are the barrel sizes they'll accept.  The 126 is the "Robbins Type" but I am not sure what the significance of that is.

Thank you!

Roger

post-38-0-27942200-1388871537_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh.. anw for some mainspring i managed to fit into the mainspring winder. But when i wind almost gonna complete it and it suddenly pop up and broke the mainspring. Why is that so? Am i doing something wrong? Do i need to flip the mainspring and put it into the mainspring winder? And sorry for this question does flipping the mainspring will causes anything? Thanks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello. Watchcraft mainspring winders can be used to wind right hand and left hand so they are a good starter to begin with. Some mainsprings are left hand wind or right hand wind so the Watchcraft will work , but they are not the quality of a set of Bergeon winders which come in right and left hand wind sets or combined.

I find the most K&D's winders are ok for pocket watches but not all of them fit most wristwatch barrels.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello. Watchcraft mainspring winders can be used to wind right hand and left hand so they are a good starter to begin with. Some mainsprings are left hand wind or right hand wind so the Watchcraft will work , but they are not the quality of a set of Bergeon winders which come in right and left hand wind sets or combined.

I find the most K&D's winders are ok for pocket watches but not all of them fit most wristwatch barrels.

Excellent information!  Thanks very much!

Roger

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh.. anw for some mainspring i managed to fit into the mainspring winder. But when i wind almost gonna complete it and it suddenly pop up and broke the mainspring. Why is that so? Am i doing something wrong? Do i need to flip the mainspring and put it into the mainspring winder? And sorry for this question does flipping the mainspring will causes anything? Thanks. 

 

Not quite certain what happened from your description.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Hi I was just looking at mainspring winding tools and as someone who is new to this think they are a big expense for the new coming is there anther way of putting in a mainspring with out the tool, or do new springs come ready to fit ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi I was just looking at mainspring winding tools and as someone who is new to this think they are a big expense for the new coming is there anther way of putting in a mainspring with out the tool, or do new springs come ready to fit ? 

To be done correctly and more importantly Safely...you really should use mainspring winders to fit mainsprings. There are instances where they are not needed, when the mainspring is held with a girdle that is smaller in diameter than they barrel. These can be installed directly into the barrel from the girdle. But, then again, I usually remove the girdle and inspect, clean and grease the mainspring before installing it. So, I still use a winder set.

There are some deals on used sets out there but I've bought poor sets along with really good sets. It's hit or miss, to be honest!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought a used set of Watch-Craft mainspring winders for wrist watches recently and they were very reasonably priced.  I used them for the first time this past weekend (first time ever winding a mainspring) on a mid-1960s Elgin and found the experience quite easy.  I installed and removed the mainspring about 3 or 4 times dry to get the hang of it and then oiled it and reinstalled it.  With the winder, I found the removal and reinstallation of the mainspring much easier than I was expecting (many comments online left me apprehensive about doing this but I was very eager to learn this aspect of watch repair).  For me, winding and installing the mainspring back into its barrel was much easier than trying to align the three pivots on the train bridge!  

Cheers!

Roger

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I'm looking at getting a mainspring winder, the likely candidate being the Bergeon 5355 there's not a lot else thrown up in searches but before I commit is there a better alternative? Occasionally people can recommend a genius of a Chinese alternative to things...

 

Lee

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have purchased cheap mainspring winders in the past and they have been terrible. In the end I plumped for the 5356 Set. It serves both left hand and right hand mainsprings. But I find mostly that I use sizes 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9

 

Most swiss movements use the clockwise wound handle and cranks and I find the anti-clockwise handle and cranks useful for Japanese (like Seiko).

 

There is a special ETA set, but I find #8 is OK for the 7750 and using size #7 with #6 crank (carefully) works well for 2892-A2 and 2824

 

The rest in the set I rarely use.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

So, I'm on the market for a set of mainspring winders and I had a few questions. The main options I can see, in terms of second hand or used, winding tools seem to revolve around:

 

1. Watch-Craft Bracelet Winders: Sets of 8 in sizes 5mm to 10mm.

2. Bergeon 2729 Winders: Single handle; set of 7 barrels in sizes 0 (5.6mm) to 6 (9.8mm).

3. JC Schilling Bracelet Winders: Much the same as the Watch-Craft ones.

4. K&D 123/128 Winders: Set of 7 barrels and bench vise base. Their sizes tend to be vague but the 128 seems to start from 8mm.

 

I suppose the worry with 1-3, is how likely is it to need anything larger than 10mm, and how to deal with any left handed mainsprings? Any recommendations or advice? If it helps, I intend working on vintage watches which will primarily date prior to 1970s, so I'm hoping the 10mm upper size on most of these is not an issue for a beginner green looking newbie like me ;).

 

At present, leaning towards the Bergeon though the Watch-Craft's are more readily available from the US (which makes them more expensive as it happens if you throw on customs + VAT).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then again, I just spotted a Bergeon set that went for close to £260. Seems the Watch-Craft are a fair bit cheaper overall... Checking the non-local ebay sites to find a few more samples. Looking at older forum posts elsewhere, the prices have gone up in the past year or two for used winder tools.

Edited by PadraicB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a K&D winder but do have problems with small watch springs. Releasing the winding notch from the newly wound spring can be troublesome & I have destroyed a few with this problem. It might be because it is an old vintage one but I think it is just the design.

If my finances improve hope to purchase a Bergeon or at least a barrel type winder they seem to offer a lot less hassle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know guys but in my case I've been pondering about winders and although it would be nice to have a good quality set, the volume I handle doesn't justify the expense therefore I always do them by hand. Somehow it keeps me "closer" to the watch! :)

 

It is good to know about the K&D glitch, clockboy, since I've spotted some on eBay occasionally and I've been tempted!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • No, the Peseux 7040 is doing very well as far as the rate (and amplitude) is concerned. The maximum delta measured was 20 seconds between fully wound, crown down (+8 s/d) and fully wound minus 24 hours, crown up (-12 s/d). Compare that to the ETA 2763 having a delta of over 80 seconds. What I was trying to convey was that I observed that the much higher amplitude of the Peseux movement during a 12-minute measuring period could momentarily fluctuate by 30° just like the much lower amplitude on the ETA 2763. I haven't studied the History graph on @praezis PCTM software for any other than these two movements but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that these fluctuations in amplitude during a 12-minute measuring period are the rule rather than the exception for all typical non-high-end-chronometer movements.
    • I'm presently using a cheap supermarket ultrasonic cleaner, with L&R #111 cleaner and #3 rinse solutions. I cut a bit off the bottom of an appropriate size plastic sports drink bottle, which is a perfect fit around the mesh basket I use (~65mm diameter). That allows me to use mostly water in the machine tub and cleaner or rinse only in the small plastic container. I keep the solutions that are still fit for use in small glass jam jars. I use the cleaner then two rinses, then the mesh basket balances on my bathroom radiator (once it stops dripping) to dry the parts with moderate warmth. Prior to that I tried just lighter fluid (eg. generic zippo fluid) and just soaking / swirling parts in the glass jars, but the movements did not run at all well afterwards, they were still acting gummed up. The proper solutions make a world of difference & the watches now work as they should!    
    • Have to agree with you. Will not do another. Did not enjoy the time spent. However, it was worth it to know that I understood how to disassemble, look for defects, repair and then assemble. Timegrapher? No facility to alter anything other than the stud. Everything is metal to metal.
    • Couple of things H. There surely seems to be a reoccurring fluctuation pattern  of somewhere around every 5 minutes. More noticable with your crown left trace having a large peak gradually reducing to 2 small peaks and troughs then back up to another large peak. Nev posted a download link to a book by Harold Kelly not so long back that i started to read while i was away. There was a good section on wheel and pinion ratios, rotation periods of wheels of different beat frequencies that's worth a read. Then something that bugs me comparing the amplitude and timing rate changes with your dial up trace which i chose to avoid wheel imbalances . The amplitude fluctuates by an extreme of 30 ° and the rate fluctuates by an extreme of 21 seconds as per your reading. In normal circumstances a movement dropping its power over the course of the mainspring unwinding, a hairspring acting isochronical will maintain its rate almost to the end of the power reserve. Similarly power wound into a movement increasing its amplitude from 265° to 295° a hairspring again acting isochronical will again maintain its rate aside from a brief few moments until it settles into it's rate. From that it seems to me that because the amplitude difference isn't big enough to affect a rate change then the amplitude fluctuation cause is not coming from anywhere but from the balance. So its whatever is causing the rate to change increase and decrease within the balance is also slowing and speeding up the hairspring swings. I'm not quite sure if I've just gone around in circles with that, it made sense to me when i started  😅 We did have a discussion a while back when i asked if rate could come from that point as well as from the regulator pins. This area can be electro stiffened in high grade hs i remember was the answer. I remember that over Ross's issue with balance endshake.
    • somewhere in the universe although as I'm answering this I remembered which discussion group. Somebody had a similar question loss basically expanded it to the watch would totally disintegrate in my think like 30 years. I'd have to go back and find the original discussion if I can the person seem to think that they hairspring would disintegrate like you describe and just metal on metal wearing out the entire watch. Except of course we all work on watches over 30 years and they obviously do not disintegrate. Plus somebody came along and explained why hairsprings do not have the same issues as mainsprings. Although hairsprings do end up with watchmakers insisting on bending and playing with them and torturing them etc. and that obviously is not good for the metal at all. one of the problems that you're having here it is what is the purpose of the test that started this discussion? Let me go and snip out the original image as you can see from images above this watch is horrible. Or is it? What is the purpose of the images up above in other words what exactly would use this test for? The real purpose this test is show the effect of amplitude on timekeeping. Or specifically you're looking for mechanical issues that are causing fluctuations in amplitude which unfortunately shows up  with timekeeping. or basically everything affects timekeeping but amplitude is affected by the mechanical characteristics of the watch from the mainspring to the balance wheel and unfortunately as it's a mechanical watch your always going to have power fluctuations. so how do we rule out unacceptable fluctuations versus the natural characteristic of the watch? Usually if you can find a repeating pattern you can narrow it down to the offending components for instance I'm attaching a PDF. on the second page of the PDF it talks about 21st-century equipment versus paper tape timing machines. Then they give an example of timing problems solely caused by a faulty component. although off you have a user's manual for a paper tape machine it does explain that you can find faulty components by looking at the variations on your paper tape seeing how often they repeat and do the same thing without the fancy software. Even though it was claimed that you couldn't do that in other words you couldn't find a pattern? One of the problems that comes up with modern LCD-based timing machines versus software is limited screen size. In other words it makes it very hard to look for patterns you'll see variations in numbers but it's hard to tell what's going on which is why the display above is really nice to see if there is a problem. for instance here's a paper printout from a witschi timing machine it does look distorted because I changed the speed at which the image would move across the screen. In other words I was trying to figure out a way to extend the screen to being much longer as I was looking for a pattern as you can see there doesn't appear to be a pattern at all so basically we end up with a watch that I cannot time at all they cannot really figure out what the problem is and I actually cannot find a pattern even begin the figure out where the problem might be. Plus I agreed to service this watch for free as I was going to use it for the purposes of a lecture. In other words it's a nice railroad grade pocket watch and I wanted to show before how horrible amplitude is and how wonderful it looks after serviced and after servicing it looked exactly the same still horrible. Then I used software for a clock timing machine and came up with this interesting image one a minor problems we have with time plots and  how they look is that they all do things a little bit differently. So this was occurring approximately every five minutes. Then we need another chart then I replaced something in the watch and we now get this one of the things that I was always bothered with was if I had put the hands on after servicing would the watch have Time? Because the pattern was repeating the watch would average that out may  it would have Time. Oh and what did I change somebody had swapped the mainspring barrel for something different were getting a binding between the mainspring in the center wheel pinion. so the problem you're having is what exactly is the problem? the purpose of the test image is to look for mechanical problems causing amplitude problems. Because it's a mechanical watch your always going to have variations so are the variations in this watch abnormal or normal for this watch? Once we eliminate the mechanical issues beyond it's a mechanical watch then you can work on timing issues. for timing issues I recommend going back to the normal display that were used to and make sure you have your averaging times set correctly. In other words while the graphical display is basically real time years of the numbers are averaged over time. Anywhere from 20 to 40 seconds depending upon whose specs you're looking at. So basically they will average out the problems were seeing on this time plot.   one of my amusements with students that go to the same school is that you have different instructors. So this gives you different experiences like what exactly is tight anyway as I don't remember any thing like this? Then did you know that Rolex at least in Geneva as I visited their service center replace all the screws in the watch every time they service the watch. then why did they do that because they use power screwdrivers and tighten those things down as tight as you can get them which has a problem. How many times can you tighten screw down really tight before the hints break off. So they replace the screws every single time. So personally I don't think they have to be so tight that you're in danger snapping head off that's too tight in my opinion. but the screws definitely shouldn't be falling out either which I've occasionally see and where people just don't tighten their screws tight enough.   Horologica Times -- May 2004 From the Workshop witschi time plot.pdf
×
×
  • Create New...