Cleaning Fluids

[perpetual92]

I think 8213 is for brass barrels and the 8217 is for aluminum barrels. Kluber 125 is pretty all purpose.

[darthdosh]

Hello Everyone,

 

I am looking for a watch cleaning solution to rinse some pocket watch movement parts in. I do not have a ultrasonic cleaning machine. Would soaking the parts in an "ultrasonic" labeled cleaning solution work? Thank you very much!

[bobm12]

Just use ronson lighter fluid and let the parts soak a little. You may want to have some pegwood handy to peg jewels and other spots. It works at that level.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[clockboy]

Lighter fluid seems to work but never tried it,  In my very early days of restoring clocks I  

found paraffin a useful cleaner followed by isopropyl as a final rinse. 

[darthdosh]

Can you use something that is not flammable?

[bobm12]

darthdosh, I think you are getting too technical for me. :)

 

I would also recommend not to smoke while working on watches even if you are not using any of the different chemicals (for cleaning, lubing and other stuff), a small amount of cinder or any other debris from a cigar/cigarette can contaminate your work...anything can contaminate your work and your workplace. You must strive for a clean, dust free environment.

 

Cheers

 

Bob

[Geo]

Can you use something that is not flammable?

Have a read of this thread.

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2181-filthy-watches/?hl=priory#entry22041

[darthdosh]

Thank you Bob! I will try using the lighter liquid. One last question :) What exactly does an ultrasonic cleaner do in terms of cleaning the parts? and do you think it would also work if I simply rinsed the parts in an ultrasonic cleaner solution without the machine? Thank you! :)

[bobm12]

I can't really answer the question accurately but I can tell you that ultrasonics warm up the cleaning/rinsing solutions so they should not be flammable (or not much) and help dissolve the gunk and greases. The "waves" will penetrate small places all over and detach dirt from the parts. It is said that it will -- with enough sessions -- wash away the plating and other finishes from objects submitted to this process. So, it is very powerful. The solutions themselves are designed for this process and they are rather expensive.

 

Lighter fluid doesn't need the "tech" add on (the machine). It is able to achieve a good result by simply dipping the parts and stirring a bit (usually with circular movements and/or agitating the fluid, gently, with the air from the blower). Check out some of Marks videos on cleaning hairsprings and jewels. Even with my ultrasonic machine I still use lighter fluid for those.

 

I'll give you an example: I wash my jalopy (old car) with the rain and it does the job (just park it outside, it is free). If I had a, say, 2015 Jaguar, I'll spend US$150 for a good hand wash every time (maybe). So there you have it, both methods do the job one better than the other but the objective is achieved.

 

The beauty of the lighter fluid vs. Ultrasonic solutions, -- both valid and proven methods -- is that both will do a better job than rain on my car!

 

Hope this helps,

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[perpetual92]

I just clean around 5-10 movements/year and never bought any machine.  I don't mind spending 1-2 hours cleaning parts.  Its relaxing....lol and I dont do this for the money.

I've seen a few movement/part get some nasty wear marks from cleaning machines/ultrasonics so really dont care for them.  If I did this for a living, that would be a different story.

 

I just bought some small closeable metal straining baskets from Esslingers in the USA.  I just put a few parts in at a time (usually the mainplate/balance go in first).  Soak for about 3-4 minutes with some light back and forth movement to agitate.  Then put in 2 different rinses.  I remove key bridges/mainplate and peg the jewel holes and rewash/rinse if needed or just for good measure.  I use a blower to dry the parts and also dry with watchpaper.  The metal watchband goes in last.

 

I use Zenith 67 cleaner and Drizebrite rinse.  Works great with really no residue.

 

I do use lighter fluid or One Dip to soak the hairspring and jewels in prior to final install.

Edited December 14, 2015 by perpetual92

[rodralph]

I would like the forum's recommendation on  cleaning solutions to use with the L&R Master cleaning machines. I have seen Ofrei and Esslinger offering an ammoniated and non-ammoniated solution. What is the difference between these solutions? Which one will work better with the Master series cleaning machine?

 

Also, I have been designing circuit for my L&R Master involving an Arduino microprocessor and a couple Solid State Relays which will allow me to run the machine direction either forward, reverse or automatically alternate between the two directions. I just placed an order with an electronics supplier in the US for the relays. I have used Arduino prototype boards in the past and they are great. Any interest on the board members to see the end results? I will be happy to post progress pictures as I develop this. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[bobm12]

Hi rod,

 

I use L & R Extra Fine Watch Cleaning Solution and L & R Ultrasonic Watch Rinsing Solution and have always had good results. Next, I will try Zenith Radiant Watch & Clock Cleaner and Zenith Drizebrite Rinsing Solution but I still have a lot of the first ones. Lots of people also have had good results with the L&Rs.

 

By the way, it would be great your suggestion to post the Arduino progress...and for those of us that are not fully familiar with it, a little introduction to the technology. :)

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[rodralph]

Bobm

 

Thank you for the recommendation. I will start with these solutions first. I have a few pocket watches in desperate need of a good cleaning.

 

I am on vacation in Puerto Rico at the moment, but when I go back I will be posting more about this idea. I have seen a few machines being sold on the 'bay that have been modified to alternate the direction of the motor. That's what gave me the idea for this project. 

[bobm12]

Very good rod, keep us in the loop!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Folkvisor]

Hi 

 

Is it possible to clean cap jewels and shock springs with naphtha or alcohol?

 

I have no ready access to 'real' cleaning solutions since they can't be sent via the post if flammable.

 

Thank you

 

Dave

[jeffc83]

I used Naphtha for 6 months on all my parts including the harispring and never ran into any issues. (does a decent job stripping the garbage off)  Having said that, it is not intended for this purpose so I invested in an ultrasonic cleaner with the proper cleaners.  You CAN order the chemicals/cleaner online but it must ship ground:)  I went to http://www.esslinger.com/to purchase my supplies.  Hope this helps!

[Blacklab]

I use lighter fluid (naptha) on everything without problems. Alcohol is fine but keep it away balances & pallets as it will dissolve shellac.

[oldhippy]

In my day I used ronsonol lighter fluid for cleaning the balance and hairspring and jewel caps, with the caps I would use a fiberglass scratch pen, then blow dry with a blower

[Folkvisor]

Thank you all. That's is a good point about the alcohol dissolving shellac; I had forgotten that. I will be careful not to use it anywhere near the impulse jewel or anywhere else shellac is used as a glue.

 

Dave

[bobm12]

Hi Dave, you can avoid all hassles altogether and not use alcohol, period. In my mind, at this stage where you are not investing on a cleaning machine, I would just use lighter fluid (ronsonol, naphta, it goes with different names depending on location). That won't hurt anything and will definitely clean acceptably and even completely depending on technique and "elbow grease".

 

On the other hand, an ultrasonic machine doesn't have to be too expensive and the fluids will ship ground...as Jeff suggested. Just don't put any flammable stuff in it. Most important, don't overthink it, just use the lighter fluid for now -- hand cleaning -- and explore the possibility of improving the process with better equipment and convenience later.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

PS. As an afterthought, the oils would be my main concern.

[Folkvisor]

Hi Bob

I should be able to get some naphtha locally. I've also found a Canadian supplier that will make life easier re oils, parts, etc; customs can be a smidge difficult at times.

This is a whole new world! It's nice to be a part of it - problems and all.

Thank you for your guidance.

Dave

[jeffc83]

I'm glad you're sticking with it! I attempted a hairspring repair this evening and instead of repairing it, I pulled out my own hair and ruined yet another:/ Have to take the good with the bad, I'm still terrible at repairing hairsprings. (better to just replace it anyway)

[Folkvisor]

At this point in my newfound career I can't even imagine attempting that!

Dave

[jeffc83]

It gets hairy, no pun intended;) I just love the rest of the job (yes, everything else) and am learning every single day! If you have broken movements to work on, its well worth the time and effort to disassemble and reassemble them as a learning tool. Heck, I actually fixed one by accident in my early days...it was actually a hairspring and was just sticking. (toothpick fixed it) Go figure:)

[Folkvisor]

I've fixed pianos by dismantling them and reassembling again. No idea what I did. Probably something was loose or lodged somewhere and it just fell out without my noticing it. I once found a thumb tack in the only place it could possibly be to totally jam the action and it got there by accident.

I couldn't sleep last night so I dismantled a watch. I was too tired to reassemble it again...

What I think is really cool is that I actually know where all those little gizmos go now.

It's fascinating and there's a lot to learn.