Rolex Cal 1570 Balance wheel rubbing

[Michael62791]

Hello guys

i am working on a Rolex cal 1570 balance wheel that stops when is dial down but runs when dial up, i changed the balance staff thinking that was the issue, turns out it wasn’t. 
 

the balance wheel bumps and rubs into the pallet fork plate. 
 

Bellow I left a picture of the pivots of the balance staff. 
 

[clockboy]

The balance cannot be balanced. It should spin on an absolute level plane. 

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Michael62791 said:

Bellow I left a picture of the pivots of the balance staff. 

The pivots look fine but based on your description if it's not the pivots it's the Balance jewel assembly that I would be suspicious of and it would be nice to get a picture of that from the dial side.

Edited December 30, 2023 by JohnR725

[RichardHarris123]

Can the depth of the jewel on the mainplate be adjusted on this caliber? 

[JohnR725]

4 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Can the depth of the jewel on the mainplate be adjusted on this caliber?

Rolex usually as very detailed balance End shake specifications in other words they expect you to adjust to those specifications. I don't see any of the usual adjustments on the balance bridge side so it would stand the reason that the other side should be movable although it would be really nice if we had a picture.

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, Michael62791 said:

the balance wheel bumps and rubs into the pallet fork plate. 

In what watch position does it do this ?

5 hours ago, Michael62791 said:

Hello guys

i am working on a Rolex cal 1570 balance wheel that stops when is dial down but runs when dial up, i changed the balance staff thinking that was the issue, turns out it wasn’t. 
 

the balance wheel bumps and rubs into the pallet fork plate. 
 

Bellow I left a picture of the pivots of the balance staff. 
 

Is there a lot of endshake on the balance ?

[Nucejoe]

The Bloc on mainplate side is movable.

You might need to adjust the balance cock accordingly ( shim ).

Such problem might have been created by previous watch destroyer by bending balance cock.

A jewel tool set like this be nice to have

https://www.ofrei.com/page615.html

[Endeavor]

11 hours ago, Michael62791 said:

i am working on a Rolex cal 1570 balance wheel that stops when is dial down but runs when dial up, i changed the balance staff thinking that was the issue, turns out it wasn’t. 

I'm confused

What's the history of the watch?

Why do you work on it? What have you done so far?

I mean, if you change a Rolex balance staff out, I would assume that you know a thing or two.

What was the reason to change out the staff? Did the staff cause a "wobble" in the balance wheel? If not, IMHO, balance staffs, unless (partially) broken, don't shorten themselves, so why would the problem be in the balance staff? Likewise, jewels don't move out of themselves, neither do bridges bend themselves.

It seems to me that there is more to the story than the brief description above.

Please enlighten me ...

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Endeavor

[clockboy]

This might be useful, post by watch guy.

 

https://watchguy.co.uk/service-rolex-oysterdate-1601-calibre-1570/

Thoughts on this!!  Was the balance staff broken when you received the watch or was it damaged during the service. If it was damaged during the service was the balance running free before. If so then the new balance is incorrect either in it’s fitting or the wrong balance.

Also have you done this test when fitted.

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=580061286457245

Edited December 30, 2023 by clockboy

[Nucejoe]

7 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Can the depth of the jewel on the mainplate be adjusted on this caliber? 

Yes it can be adjusted, 

 

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

The Bloc on mainplate side is movable.

You might need to adjust the balance cock accordingly ( shim ).

Such problem might have been created by previous watch destroyer by bending balance cock.

A jewel tool set like this be nice to have

https://www.ofrei.com/page615.html

Bloc also called  setting is movable.

But as Cockboy says balance must be in absolutely level plane and screw balance is hard to level, So a new balance is best choice, unless OP can bring the balance back to level.

As this balance is, big positional variations is inevitable.

Rgds 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Nucejoe

[Endeavor]

And so the guessing continues .......

Edited December 30, 2023 by Endeavor

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

And so the guessing continues .......

https://www.iconeek.com/auction-lot/rolex-less-than-br-greater-than-caliber-1570-movement-no.-d164161-less-than-br_45C4B1A88A

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=580061286457245

I take it OP cleaned and pegged balance jewels.

If not then check side skakes on balance staff, a hole jewel might be broken/ worn hole.

In case jewels holes are OK , asjust the setting depth.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Nucejoe

[nevenbekriev]

  Gyus, we don'd seem to help OP much this way.

I generally work on antique movements, which means 200-300 years old, and have claimed long time ago that don't work on contemporary watches and work on such only when have to save some of my friends-watchmakers when thyey broke something or are not able to find parts, so yes, I don'have much experience partiqulary with Rolex. But, some general things I am able to say:

I can not imagine that something in the lewel setting of the shock device can be adjusted in order that the position of the endstone will change. And, the problem is for sure in the position of the endstone in high, so no point yet to talk about bent bridges or shiming or so. First thing to do is to find what is the problem and it is in the plate, not in the cock

To OP:

I don't know You level, but will say that You did some mistakes:

Before replacing the staff, You could compare the lenghts of the downside parts of the old and new staffs. Replacing the staff just to see what will happen is silly thing.  Hope that You are able now to true the balance wheel, as this is important for solving the problem. Then, after acheeving correct high position of the balance wheel and normal amplitudes in all positions, You will have to do the balance adjustment in order to minimise position errors. All this would be avoided by not touching the balance...

The first thing that I would check is if the whole shock device has not sinked in the plate. Then, if it is in correct position, would check if the jewel settings of the cock and plate are not replaced by each other, as they sometimes are different. Or, may be the plate shock device setting is not original.

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, clockboy said:

Was the balance staff broken when you received the watch or was it damaged during the service.

I have to wonder how many balance staff pivots are broken when you have a jewel assembly designed to prevent that from happening?

If you read carefully which I know you did

17 hours ago, Michael62791 said:

changed the balance staff thinking that was the issue, turns out it wasn’t. 

So in other words proper diagnostics was not done before a course of action was taken.

4 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Gyus, we don'd seem to help OP much this way.

This is usually always the way we approach things well sort of. A lot of times I like to ask background history but occasionally people refuse to give history they somehow think that we should be able to just give an answer. But if you read typically certain things always occur in problem solving like for instance

4 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

And, the problem is for sure in the position of the endstone in high, so no point yet to talk about bent bridges or shiming

So you're right classically when there's a problem on one side of the balance and it's not the balance pivots it's the balance jewels. But on this group the current obsession is bent bridges which by the way is acceptable Swiss practice and the most common is shimmering shimmering fixes everything including bent hairsprings that might be causing an issue. So shimmering is the number one fixed for most problems on this message board or at least the number one suggested of what the problem could need

Now the other problem with this discussion is the original posting person only posted one message I wonder if he's ever going to come back to us? So we will be stuck with unsolved mysteries forever probably

[Nucejoe]

19 hours ago, Michael62791 said:

 i changed the balance staff thinking that was the issue, turns out it wasn’t. 

You must have been thinking worn pivots, how about worn jewels? 

which also expalins wobble of the balance.

Did you cisually check balance jewels ?

[Jon]

Here's a quick Gif I made to show truing the balance using callipers. This has such a slight wobble, but is within acceptable parameters. The important thing is the balance doesn't touch or rub anything when in operation. This is an Eterna Tank.

Here's a pic of the balance freshly rivetted with a new staff in the movement