damn stupid zodiac 88

[gary17]

Hey guys whats the story on these zodiac 88. I have just held the arbour with a pin vice to turn the barrel to check resistance and to see if it returned. And it dont so i thought i would check the mainspring but according to the barrel it says do not open.Which is strange as i have a spare zodiac mainspring  to swap it with. But how do i swap it if you cannot open the barrel. Is the barrel unusable if i do open it?

Anyone done one of these before.

Cheers

gary

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, gary17 said:

Hey guys whats the story on these zodiac 88. I have just held the arbour with a pin vice to turn the barrel to check resistance and to see if it returned. And it dont so i thought i would check the mainspring but according to the barrel it says do not open.Which is strange as i have a spare zodiac mainspring  to swap it with. But how do i swap it if you cannot open the barrel. Is the barrel unusable if i do open it?

Anyone done one of these before.

Cheers

gary

 

22 minutes ago, gary17 said:

Hey guys whats the story on these zodiac 88. I have just held the arbour with a pin vice to turn the barrel to check resistance and to see if it returned. And it dont so i thought i would check the mainspring but according to the barrel it says do not open.Which is strange as i have a spare zodiac mainspring  to swap it with. But how do i swap it if you cannot open the barrel. Is the barrel unusable if i do open it?

Anyone done one of these before.

Cheers

gary

Hi Gary. I think I had one these a few months ago on a cheap lucerne.  Sadly I pretty much destroyed the full watch as it was one of my first attempted fixes from a job lot. Not entirely  my fault if I'm honest,  it was unbelievably cheap and nasty in every respect and I'm sure it had an unserviceable mainspring inside which suggested a pretty much throw away item. Unfortunately  that's what I did with it with no inspection or investigation of the barrel. It does look like you've had a little go. There is no slot to enter with a pry this suggests do not open, also the do not open in English and in German stamped on it suggests do not open lol. Give me a moment to get serious, I can when I try. Does the barrel lid curl around the inside of the main barrel, if so then I think you are going to have a hard time getting it off. Try a pair of tweezers with the blades spaced out over the barrel onto the barrel teeth and push down . The lid should be on top and hopefully pop up, gauge your pressure, if it feels like it's not going to give then you may damage the arbor or the spring. Good luck. If you're  anything like me, if a sign says do not enter then I'm going to look inside to see why I'm not supposed to enter

[HectorLooi]

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Try a pair of tweezers with the blades spaced out over the barrel onto the barrel teeth and push down.

Don't do this. That is the most common cause of missing teeth on a mainspring barrel.

If the cover is really stubborn, make a hole the same size as the outer diameter of the barrel in a scrap piece of aluminium or plastic. This will distribute the pressure over all the teeth when you push down on the arbor.

Many watches have barrels that say "DO NOT OPEN". But has that stopped any of us. 

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

. I think I had one these a few months ago on a cheap lucerne. 

Might've been the same concept perhaps but the zodiac 88 isn't exactly a cheap watch

9 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Try a pair of tweezers with the blades spaced out over the barrel onto the barrel teeth and push down

This is an interesting Concept don't think I've ever used it before I wonder if we should worry about?

5 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Don't do this. That is the most common cause of missing teeth on a mainspring barrel.

I'm not sure if this is the most common way of destroying the barrel. But I can't recommend the method either as I think it would destroy the barrel. Yes missing teeth are damaged teeth basically makes the barrel worthless and destroyed.

But don't worry it looks like I see one on eBay only $150 which seems like a bargain considering the probably rather hard to get.

It's amazing what you can find on the Internet if you look. Here's a nice article explains why disassembling the barrel is not in your best interest. A lot of modern barrels come with lids with no slots and they will come off in a variety of ways relatively safely without damaging the barrel but looks like from the description this barrel was not designed to come apart. Then of course if you somehow managed to get a part getting it back together might be a challenge.

https://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php?topic=2134.0

 

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Don't do this. That is the most common cause of missing teeth on a mainspring barrel.

If the cover is really stubborn, make a hole the same size as the outer diameter of the barrel in a scrap piece of aluminium or plastic. This will distribute the pressure over all the teeth when you push down on the arbor.

Many watches have barrels that say "DO NOT OPEN". But has that stopped any of us. 

I do agree the method I sometimes  use can be risky. I saw it done many times on YouTube when I first started to learn, personally I've never had an issue doing it this way but it does cross my mind that sensitive parts of the barrel construction can get broken  given too much force, hence me saying to gauge the pressure you give it. Hector is quite right by suggesting a full even distribution over all of the teeth would be much better and less risky. As close as possible to the outer barrel wall staying away from the actual teeth as much as possible. A larger and deeper scrap barrel placed over the worked barrel would be a good choice of DIY tool. My bad sorry, tweezers over the side is a bit of a complacent attitude. I've just never had an issue that way but I'm very accurate and careful about the tweezer placement and if it's not popping off straight away then it's a rethink.

[JohnR725]

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I saw it done many times on YouTube

One of the unfortunate problems of YouTube is there is no guarantee that someone making a video actually has any idea at all what they're doing even if they're doing it.

[jdm]

40 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

.My bad sorry, tweezers over the side is a bit of a complacent attitude.

It is. Spend few minutes and few bucks making a bored support as mentioned above. Even better, while at it make a few, strpped every half or 1mm and you'll be set for life. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

26 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

One of the unfortunate problems of YouTube is there is no guarantee that someone making a video actually has any idea at all what they're doing even if they're doing it.

I totally agree but the youtubers i watched  are well respected  experienced amateur and professional watch repairers and all have many of subscribers, so that did give me confidence in that method. I think you will agree that the approach  taken to a particular  task is just as important  as the method used. A clumsy approach  to a safe method can cause damage and by the same token a calm mindful and focused approach to a more delicate method can consistently yield good results.

[Neverenoughwatches]

37 minutes ago, jdm said:

It is. Spend few minutes and few bucks making a bored support as mentioned above. Even better, while at it make a few, strpped every half or 1mm and you'll be set for life. 

Apologies  if I've set you back in any way. We all come by and have different methods and different  ways of how we approach  that method. This applies to all aspects of our lives. A saying that I  constantly  come across whenever I'm  researching anything that I'm doing and that is to find your own way of doing things that works for you, this I firmly stand by as we are all different, do things differently and approach things differently. On top of that we all have a different skill level and as that changes and evolves so can our approach. Not trying to justify how I do things only to explain why. Again apologies  if I've set you back at all. The Lucerne that I acquired was a fairly recent very poorly made example, probably not indicative of a vintage piece,watch companies constantly  change hands and a well made brand can have it's reputation  ruined very quickly, after all its just a name used by another company.But that's a very in depth subject for another day. That's not to say a similar barrel design would be used in something  of good quality. I would be interested  to see your Zodiac if you would mind posting a couple of pictures, I'm always on the lookout for a good brand to start working with. My favourites  at the moment  are Oris and Movado.

[watchweasol]

I think John is right in what he says  doing it and understanding the why's and wherefore's is another thing. If it says dont open ones logic says it was done for a reason, like sealed for life bearings. But if a replacement cannot be got or is too expensive then that is a good reason to try. but as advocated by jdm and HECTOR    make a jig to support the barrel and be very clear in what you are attempting to do and be careful in doing it, because if you ruin it you are back to square one or even worse as now it is destroyd.

[nickelsilver]

I've seen plenty of automatic barrels marked "do not open", so far the only one that was truly sealed was Zodiac. Total destruction of the lid on removal, ended up making a new lid. The one in the pic looks quite mangled, I'd try to find a new one.

[gary17]

hey guys.

Im still on that zodiac,I have 2 mainspring barrels just under 10mm (i think it mm) and its a auto mainspring i need to insert. The problem is the 2 tails on the end of the mainspring (they go to outer wall of the barrel) cannot be rolled tight enough to insert into the barrel to start inserting it all in. I have just broke one and now have 3 left .Any tips. I do the mainsprings by hand.

cheers

gary