400 day clock.issues

[chriseames168]

Dear All, hope you can help I have a 400 day clock and the barrel Spring has two teeth missing will the clock run through ok with out them, the click come lose so made the spring run down with a bang but main spring is ok but Brocken two teeth, will it run ok.can you Advise.

[SeikoWatch]

1 hour ago, chriseames168 said:

Dear All, hope you can help I have a 400 day clock and the barrel Spring has two teeth missing will the clock run through ok with out them, the click come lose so made the spring run down with a bang but main spring is ok but Brocken two teeth, will it run ok.can you Advise.

I don't think so... exemple : you have  a gear ( for a timing belt ( car ) ) ,and it's missing a teeth or two , i'm not sure you'll go somewhere .. The car won't run ok .. Samething for a watch.. I have a Bulova with a wheel with a teeth on the minute wheel , and , yes she runs , but not ok, there's a lack somwhere

[watchweasol]

Hi  The short answer is no, unless you wish to further damage the gear train. Your options are to either repair the barrel of replace it. If you have little experience in clock repair its a replacement barrel. Before replacing the barrel  the clock will need dismantling and all the gear train and escapement checking for damaged teeth, bent pivots. When a mainspring releases power quickly the force is great enough to remove fingers so the fine mechanism of a 400 day it will be an issue. This type of clock requires fine tuning and as such any damage however small will cause running problems, they have to be near perfect. It has taken me some times over a week to get then right.  What make of clock is it as there are many, can you post a picture of the front and the back plate so as to determine the model type.

[oldhippy]

Depending on how many of the other teeth are damaged. Two teeth can be repaired by means of cutting into the barrel replace with a blank piece of brass and cutting the teeth with needle files, if you can machine teeth in your lathe if you have the attachments to cut teeth. The other is to have the barrel replaced if it has been made by a solid block of brass, some barrels are made in two sections, 1 teeth 2 barrel and the two are soldered together, If yours is from two pieces then the teeth need to be cut and soldered together. 

[clockboy]

No it won’t run. It can be repaired but it is not an easy fix.

[Michael1962]

Some photos may be of great assistance to everyone.

[chriseames168]

15 hours ago, chriseames168 said:

Dear All, hope you can help I have a 400 day clock and the barrel Spring has two teeth missing will the clock run through ok with out them, the click come lose so made the spring run down with a bang but main spring is ok but Brocken two teeth, will it run ok.can you Advise.

 

[chriseames168]

Added photos 

[Michael1962]

I would say something if I could. I think you need to wait for @oldhippy to see the photos. I am certainly not knowledgable enough to assist.

The photos will definitely assist with getting information from others.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Michael1962

[oldhippy]

Considering the age of some of these clocks this is quite modern. You identify these clocks by the back plate and its markings. Looks like one of the Kern & Sohne miniature movements. These clocks are offered on eBay for sale, properly because they are buggers to get working. You should be able to pick one up on there for parts if not then complete. Forget what I have previously said in my post because it would not be viable to have teeth cut and made. Someone on here that has an up to date Horolovar 400 day clock guide should be able to give it a positive identification, my book is rather out of date.

[watchweasol]

Hi   the clock is by Kern and Sohne  (Kern and sons) and without a full face pic of the backplate looks to be a 4ball pendulum  midget clock. The barrel looks to be a solid cut and therefore its either repair or replacement. Running the clock as is will cause further damage as.    the barrel skips the bad teeth the strain put on the adjacent wheel will weaken the teeth to a point where they will bend or shear off causing mayhem and effectivly ruining a good clock.  New parts from Meadows and Passmore in the UK or search the net for a compatible donor.  A full plate picture of the backplate will help identification, better if you remove the suspension/guard  as the alignment of the pivot holes enables us to match it to the Terwilliger's book.

 

 

[chriseames168]

Dear oldhippy, to be honest the clock is running ok but not sure if it will run though the broken part, been told that will cause more damage if it goes to broken part, the plate number is 1406E made in 1958 4 ball Midget clock,  thank you again for your help,

[chriseames168]

Kern & Sohne

[oldhippy]

It won't run through the broken teeth, it might jump which will cause more damage. I would stop the clock to avoid any more problems. 

[chriseames168]

Would it be possible to glue the broken teeth back on with a hard glue like Araldite  or something strong, thank you,

[clockboy]

25 minutes ago, chriseames168 said:

Would it be possible to glue the broken teeth back on with a hard glue like Araldite  or something strong, thank you,

No  I would not recommend that. There is a lot of force on the teeth so highly unlikely to work.

[oldhippy]

No. 

[Bod]

This shows two repaired teeth, on a 400 day clock barrel.

The old remains have been ground out, new material fitted, and correctly shaped.

This clock does run well, but is a full sized P Hauck.

All other damage occured at the time were also fully repaired.

 

Bod

P.s I did not cause or repair this clock, it all happened before my stewardship.

[chriseames168]

Hi Bob, that is the problem I have two teeth missing, I see the repair and is good to me, so again how was the repair done, you ground down in brass and added new brass and shaped it to same size as original, 

[oldhippy]

Looks like it has had two slots cut into the barrel using needle files, small brass pieces fitted soft soldered filed to shape. 

A skilled clockmaker can do this the trick is to make sure you have the right shape depth height and distance between teeth. If done correctly you would hardly see the difference, on this it stands out like a sore thumb. 

[anilv]

No experience with these clock but for 400 days I expect a low of power reserve and this would be very hard on the train. I've seen repairs where the replacement fillet was angled into the old part so that the torque would just drive it deeper in.

Good luck!

Anilv