Identifying clock

[MechanicMike]

When I disassembled there were domed washers at the bottom of the columns, which I put back but nothing at the top. 

Is it time to trim the spring or shim the columns?

[watchweasol]

Hi Mike  Its looking like we have explored all the alternatives, Did you get a single spring or a 3 pack from Holovar,  if three trim the spring just sufficient for the rotary pendulum to be free of the cup and enable it to lock for transport.   good luck.     cheers

[MechanicMike]

No but I'm beginning to think I'm going to invest in a couple more lol. I'm going to try shimming the columns first. Trimming the spring will be last. 

Stay tuned...

[oldhippy]

Don't mess with the case, alter the suspension spring. 

[Willow]

11 hours ago, MechanicMike said:

No but I'm beginning to think I'm going to invest in a couple more lol. I'm going to try shimming the columns first. Trimming the spring will be last. 

Stay tuned...

Hi MechanicMike i went through 4 springs before i got it right, and still running fast  i have bought another pack next size up to see if that solves the problem its cost me more in springs then it did for the clock at least you got it on first go well done hope that gives you some encouragement and you solve your problem

[clockboy]

4 hours ago, Willow said:

Hi MechanicMike i went through 4 springs before i got it right, and still running fast  i have bought another pack next size up to see if that solves the problem its cost me more in springs then it did for the clock at least you got it on first go well done hope that gives you some encouragement and you solve your problem

Mike the length of the spring does not alter the speed of the clock with these movements if it is running too fast it is the strength of the spring is wrong.

[Willow]

2 hours ago, clockboy said:

Mike the length of the spring does not alter the speed of the clock with these movements if it is running too fast it is the strength of the spring is wrong.

Hi clockboy i don't think MachanicMiike is saying it's running fast that was me and i did mean slow so my apologise if i gave that impression, if i understand him right it's the length of the spring and the pendulum is touching the bottom of the cup.

[MechanicMike]

yup that is correct the pendulum is touching the bottom of the cup. I just logged on, I just picked up a handful of brass washers and slid two in under each column at the base. Hippy is that what you're talking about as opposed to under the upper plate? or should I forego that and trim the spring? I think I'm ordering more springs just in case.

[MechanicMike]

On 2/9/2021 at 4:32 PM, oldhippy said:

Don't mess with the case, alter the suspension spring. 

no washers? go straight to the spring?

[MechanicMike]

11 hours ago, clockboy said:

Mike the length of the spring does not alter the speed of the clock with these movements if it is running too fast it is the strength of the spring is wrong.

no worries-its the pendulum thats hitting the cup is my problem. I'm trying to figure out if I should shim the columns at the bottom or just go ahead and trim the spring.

[MechanicMike]

On 2/6/2021 at 2:39 AM, Michael1962 said:

OK. I found it on Cousins so I know what it is now, but I don't know how it would be used?

Methinks I have much learning to do.

did you see the pic I posted? I left the tool attached to the saddle for you to view.

Edited February 11, 2021 by MechanicMike

[Michael1962]

Yes. Saw that. Understand it now.

Haven't got a need for one as yet. I am starting off learning to rebush.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Michael1962

[MechanicMike]

Yes, that's my poising tool at the bottom-I needed a bubble level and that popped in my head. It worked. So, you can see I added one washer to each column and it brought the pendulum off the cup, but it's now leaning off center. Is that ok? Also, how tight should the fork be on the anchor pin? Mine is pretty snug.

[Michael1962]

I am not sure if your poising tool will work as you intend here.

The bubble in it is for getting IT level. You cannot guarantee that you have the three legs in a plane parallel to the plane of the bubble when sitting it on the clock base.

You can not be guaranteed that it will be showing you the level of the base. For that you would need a proper bubble level.

This would work if you sat the clock base on the poising tool straight edges, but for the price that would cost in damage, go and buy a round bubble level at your local hardware store.

[oldhippy]

If the case has adjustable feet at the bottom you get the level by adjusting them is not you should move it to a place which is level. If the pendulum when attached to the suspension spring is touching the cup the spring needs to be shortened by a tiny amount, make sure the pendulum adjustment is back about half way, this gives you plenty of adjustment to play with. Sorry to say but it looks like its is going to be a trial and error repair so it could take a long time before you get it right. A tiny sprit level  is what you need not a poising tool. 

[Bod]

Question 1 "How tight should the fork be on the anchor pin?"

My answer, a piece of copier paper should slide between the pin and fork. (with the pin vertical)

Question 2 "How level does the clock need to be"

My answer, The pendulum base needs to be within the cup, but not touching the base of the cup, 2-3mm clearance is fine.  Use the leveling screws under the base to centre the pendulum in the cup.  No bubble needed, except to check the shelf that the clock will eventually be on.

Question 3, "How long should the suspension spring be?"

My answer, adjust the spring length via the top block, leaving the excess sticking out of the top, the spring is not cut to length till the clock is running well.  Adjust the fork hight as necessary for proper running.

 

Bod

[oldhippy]

The fork height should be the same as the diagram in the book, if not it can cause what is called fluttering which can upset the running of the clock, a tiny drop of oil between the fork where metal touches the brass will also help the clock so when it escapes it doesn't jitter. 

[clockboy]

As far as levelling is concerned I have always just adjusted the case feet until it is centred in the cup. The length of the spring is not that critical it just must not rub on the bottom of the cup. 

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, clockboy said:

As far as levelling is concerned I have always just adjusted the case feet until it is centred in the cup. The length of the spring is not that critical it just must not rub on the bottom of the cup. 

Sorry to disagree clockboy but the length is critical it has to be a certain length in order for the locking mechanism to work correctly.  

[MechanicMike]

8 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

I am not sure if your poising tool will work as you intend here.

The bubble in it is for getting IT level. You cannot guarantee that you have the three legs in a plane parallel to the plane of the bubble when sitting it on the clock base.

You can not be guaranteed that it will be showing you the level of the base. For that you would need a proper bubble level.

This would work if you sat the clock base on the poising tool straight edges, but for the price that would cost in damage, go and buy a round bubble level at your local hardware store.

That makes sense and yeah I didn't have a bubble but I need to go get one for sure. I did level it tho on an inspection stone so, it is close. Need to get a bubble today.

[MechanicMike]

5 hours ago, oldhippy said:

If the case has adjustable feet at the bottom you get the level by adjusting them is not you should move it to a place which is level. If the pendulum when attached to the suspension spring is touching the cup the spring needs to be shortened by a tiny amount, make sure the pendulum adjustment is back about half way, this gives you plenty of adjustment to play with. Sorry to say but it looks like its is going to be a trial and error repair so it could take a long time before you get it right. A tiny sprit level  is what you need not a poising tool. 

Got it. Unfortunately, this one has no feet at all, and is just the columns attached to the base. The pendulum timing dial is a good tip and I'll make sure. Yeah I thought I was being suave and wise with the poising tool lol seems not! Getting a proper level today. Lol yes I'm prepared for a bit of a long haul on this one but I'm enjoying every minute.

[MechanicMike]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

drop of oil between the fork where metal touches the brass will also help the clock so when it escapes it doesn't jitter.

Got it.  A couple mm's each side for a little movement? Just seems so snug...

[clockboy]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Sorry to disagree clockboy but the length is critical it has to be a certain length in order for the locking mechanism to work correctly.  

Perhaps I have been lucky I was just not aware of that. I have not had that issue but have had issues where even after fitting the correct spring it has proved to be too strong and I have had to thin the spring. In my experience with the 400 day clocks everything has to be spot on or it stalls after a day or two. 

[watchweasol]

Hi Mike the best type of level is the ones used for leveling caravans which levels in two directions , front/back and side to side , There apps for the iphone which also double as levels  and are accurate I use both  double checking the clock and the bench plate..

[watchweasol]

I find it a bit strange that the clock has no leveling feet, as I have six of these clocks all of which have screw adjustable feet. These clocks rely on being perfectly level to work and the feet give you that adjustment.  I have never had to alter the length of the springs either All from Horolovar.  I would check the underside of the base for the feet they may just be screwed right up into the base and not be apparent.