Hettich Clock

[oldhippy]

I still don't understand how French chalk works. Is it used as an abrasive to polish of any oxide buildup or does it actually coats the brass with an invisible layer of something? But it seems to work. The wheels of my 400 day clocks are all bright and shiny.

Brass will start to tarnish when it comes into contact with air. That is all I know. 

[HectorLooi]

Just how much of the stuff do we need on the brush to properly French chalk a clock? Do you end up with your pants all white and your table top looking like a Christmas scene?

Because when I was a dental student, that was how much we used because we didn't know the cost of things. 

[oldhippy]

Ha Ha Ha, no that is way too much. A 2 inch block with a chalk brush which has bristles about 4 inches long, Draw the brush over block once, the trick is to brush the brass part very fast. That way you won't end up knee deep in the stuff. 

[Tmuir]

Yes Cousins is the best place to get most items from even in Australia.

Labanda which is in Queensland can be good for some items especially heavy thing where postage from overseas makes it not worth while.

https://www.labanda.com.au/

Australian Jewelers Supplies (AJS) can be also good for some tools as they have stores in most big cities so if you need something in a hurry you can just go in and get it too, but they tend to be more expensive than ordering from Overseas, but sometimes they are still worthwhile.

https://www.jewellerssupplies.com.au/

[Michael1962]

Yes, I know of both of those as well. The prices at Cousins are great compared to shops in Australia for like items.

Should support them as well they are the ones taking the fight to the large watch houses over the spares thing.

[Michael1962]

I did a bit more today on the second Hettich that I purchased to use for spares for my clock.

Some things are better and some aren't. A piece on my clock that was chromed steel is a brass plate on the second clock. So I am thinking about using that instead of the chromed piece from my clock.

I wanted to use the lifting solenoid from the second clock, but to do that I would have to use the front movement plate from the second clock as well. I will put the two plates (mine and the second one) together once I have completely disassembled everything to see if the pinion holes are all identical. If not, I will be staying with the original lifting solenoid. Even if I can't see a difference, I may still stay with the original plate.

Mine also has a better insulated pin that holds the battery carrier together so I will be staying with that.

One thing I will be staying with is the wire that the balance in my clock runs on. It has been replaced by nylon line in the second clock. The wire runs through a jewel on each end of the balance spindle. Even by hand, mine felt much freer than the second clock with the nylon.

Also practising with polishing a piece of brass from the second clock, which for some reason I cannot get the scratches out of. Have a Tripoli bar and a light green rouge bar as well as well as the correct wheels to use with them, but I cannot get rid of all the scratches even after much wet sanding up to 3000 grit paper.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Michael1962

[oldhippy]

If Tripoli won't remove them I would say nothing will. They must be very deep.

[Michael1962]

And that is what has me puzzled @oldhippy as they aren't. Absolutely unable to feel them with my nail and they change direction based on the last direction that I emery the surface in. I am also being incredibly light handed as I move through 600, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500 and then 3000 grit papers with a lot of water and regularly cleaning the paper as I go.

I really am quite stumped to tell the truth.

[Tmuir]

The suspension 'wire' on your second clock that has a nylon line in it must of been replaced at some time.

From memory the superfine 'E' sting used on electric guitars is very close to the size originally used.

It is a real PITA to thread through both jewels but with a bit of pacients it is possible.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Tmuir
Spelling mistake

[oldhippy]

The floating balance type clocks have a thin wire and a jewel at each end as well. I would say its a replacement. 

[Michael1962]

Did a bit more today on my Hettich. I also mucked around with practising on the top plate from the second Hettich that I bought. The calico wheel can leave marks and I am being gentle. I am certainly not pushing the plate into the wheel. I could easily stall the bench grinder that I am polishing on.

I am wondering if Hettich started to use a lower grade of brass? I still cannot polish the brass to a mirror finish.

On my Hettich (older) I have had to emery one of the posts that supports the movement and after 600 grit then 1500 grit, straight to Tripoli on my stitched wheel, then green on the calico wheel and the post is spotless. Absolutely gleams. post has a steel nut on the top of it that was rusty and affected by the battery acid. It is now polished as best as can be done and then I mucked around with a bit of heat and have changed the colour of the nut which looks quite good now. It was black originally.

I have done several jobs now by hand where a having a lathe would have been so much quicker. Have to get rid of the Esprit first. Then I might have a chance.

[Michael1962]

Ok. I need assistance or guidance. I have a stitched cloth wheel on my bench grinder. I am using Tripoli compound with it trying to polish the brass. I am currently practising on a plate from the second Hettich that I bought.

I have tried many different things.

Using the corner of the wheel where the side meets the wheel outer face along the brass.

The wheel outer face on the brass.

Varying pressures with everything I have tried.

The stitched wheel is actually leaving scratches in the surface.

If I move to a cloth wheel with green compound, it polishes but I still;l have scratches remaining from the Tripoli and wheel.

Have I just got a rubbish stitched wheel that I should junk and get a new one? I have been able to use a felt wheel and Tripoli with my Dremel on smaller parts etc and that has come up fine.

I have used the stitched wheel with Tripoli on the square brass from the corners of the case as well as the internal round movement columns and all of those have come up fine. If I use the stitched wheel on some old brass square that I have used as a dolly during my time as a fitter, it polishes up fine.

I suppose a question that I have is whether the plate brass that I am trying to polish is softer than the other brass which seems top be fine?

If that is the case, how do I polish the plate brass to a mirror finish? It currently has me quite puzzled.

 

[oldhippy]

How about Diamantine powder? 

[Michael1962]

I will have to find out where I can get some for starters @oldhippy.

I'll have a look.

[Shane]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:45 PM, Tmuir said:

The suspension 'wire' on your second clock that has a nylon line in it must of been replaced at some time.

From memory the superfine 'E' sting used on electric guitars is very close to the size originally used.

It is a real PITA to thread through both jewels but with a bit of pacients it is possible.

The clock I have has short pieces of wire (about .375"/10mm), one mounted in a fork, orienting the top of the balance and another protruding from the cup at the bottom for orienting, yes... the bottom of the balance.  It was very easy to assemble yet I can imagine how a wire running from top to bottom might be more difficult.  The fork at the top is located by only one screw and took some time to establish a functioning relationship with everything it holds influence over.  I will need to take another look at the two slotted leaf spring that ratchet the the clock into motion.  Periodicity the driving weight just falls after being lifted by the solenoid only to be lifted again.  Does/has anyone heard of these springs being available recently and if so, by whom?  I would think these springs have different jobs/loads and I may try swapping their positions to see if that helps.  There is also a torsion spring that transfers power from the ratchet wheel into the train wheels.  It that looks as if it may be slipping once in a while and in need of replacement.

This was an interesting and helpful thread.

Thank you all.

Shane

[Michael1962]

I need some help please.

I have searched and searched but I cannot find one photo of the Hettich clock that I have now. I can only find one photo which shows the same clock face. Contacting Hettich got me nowhere.

Can some of the more experienced clock people on here tell me as to how they think this face is finished? Silvered or painted? I am not experienced enough to know.

[Michael1962]

As far as the minute markers go, the HETTICH logo and 'Made in Germany, I am very tempted to go down the route of getting a colour laser jet and printing onto a decal sheet and going through that process. Looking at the font that this forum uses, it is very close to the original. Just the kerning of the font characters is a bit small. What font is used on here?

[oldhippy]

It is just a factory finished dial it isn't silvered in the same way as you silver a a clock dial and fill the numbers with black wax. 

[Michael1962]

The mantle clock that I bought has a silvered dial with black wax numbers so that will be an adventure. Luckily I have brass plates from the other Hettich I bought to practice on first.

I presume I am going to have to find a silver(ish) colour to paint the dial. Anyone have any ideas?

I have to get some parts down to a rechroming place near where I live and the nickel plating on some of the movement screws could do with being redone. I am now throwing around the idea of getting the gear to do nickel plating.

When will the rabbit hole end??????

[Michael1962]

And still more questions.

Do people think the battery holder was chrome plated or do you think it would be nickel plated? Is there any simple way to tell?

There is also the part that goes at the bottom of the movement that the balance spring attaches to. It has a brass post that is put into a hole in the plate and then what looks like two mechanical press marks on the other side of the plate to, I presume, expand the post into a countersunk area to fix the post to the plate. There is a tiny amount of movement in the post that I can feel with my fingers but cannot see. Would it be possible to somehow remove this brass post, as the plate that it is fixed to, needs to be replated after the battery leak incident as well. I do have a spare plate from the other Hettich that I bought , but it is all brass and I do want to try and keep my clock as original as possible.

The first photo show the top side of the plate. You can just see the end of the brass post at about 1~2 o'clock from the rectangular hole. The second photo shows the battery holder parts.

And no. I still can't work out the original colour of the dial to paint it. A bit annoying really. I do have a silver paint in my garage which was a touch up paint for the wheels on my old BMW bike. Just a bit too much metal flake in it. Other than that it didn't look too bad.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Michael1962

[oldhippy]

This might help.

Chrome plating gives metal a slight blue shine, while nickel has a natural yellow or whitish appearance. 

[Michael1962]

Hmmm. As you can see most of my pieces have a rusty brownish colour.

[Michael1962]

I presume that chrome plate would be harder to remove than nickel plating using wet'n'dry paper for instance?

Edited January 3, 2022 by Michael1962

[Tmuir]

I don't have my clock to look at, as its at my parents place, but I would guess chrome plated rather than nickel plated, but if you are repairing the clock for yourself and just want it to look nice and want it replated I would just go with Nickel plating as its on the back of the clock and at a distance you won't tell.

There is plenty on the web on how to do home nickel plating, but chrome plating needs to be taken to a professional.

Just remember the finish you get will only be as good as the finish on the metal before plating, so you need to remove most of the pitting have the surface absolutely clean and give it a layer of copper plate first that you can then sand back and buff up to fill up any of the pitting holes that were too deep to just sand away.

[Michael1962]

Does anyone have any insight into how I could remove the brass post so that I could plate the parts and then to be able to restore the post?

Edited January 14, 2022 by Michael1962