Rolex 1520

[Rafael]

Hi!

Anybody knows what is the circled part in the picture*? How should you reinstall? Does it need to have any movement or should it be tightly screwed on one place?

It looks like it's not connected to anything or that i'm missing something. 

The Rolex watch i'm trying to fix on stops dial side up and i'm thinking this may be the culprit since i didn't touched it and couldn't find anything else wrong, but who knows 

(*Took a screen shot from a YouTube video but it looks the same on the 1520 caliber only in silver).

 

Thanks!

Rafael

[watchweasol]

Hi   the part is the balance stop spring    I have attached the parts sheet and the parts listing for your interest

[HSL]

I see you got the parts list, here is the complementary page from the 1500 series service sheet.

[Rafael]

Thank you watchweasol and HSL! Much appreciated 

[Tudor]

Correct.

I usually work on the older versions, which do not hack.

be sure it is clean and dry, and installed right-side up. It should slide in and out with the stem. Test that before assembling further.

[Rafael]

Thanks Tudor!

 

Now that i know what this is maybe i'll have a better chance figuring this out.

[Rafael]

@Tudor, any idea from your experience with Rolex what I need to specifically check if the movement stops dial side up? I checked everything (hopefully well, but some part couldn't see well even with 20x magnification) and all seems fine. 

[Tudor]

If it runs fine in all other positions I'd be looking at all the bottom side pivots/end stones and checking end shake (and side shake) on everything that moves...

It is possible the hacking lever is deformed and hitting the balance wheel when it drops toward the rear/bottom of the movement- easy test is to leave it out and try. BUT, there shouldn't be soo much end shake in the balance wheel that it's falling into the stop lever, so you still need to check "everything".

Long shot: the balance wheel tuning screws are backed way out for some reason and fouling on the stop lever.

[anilv]

Its movement is linked to the stem position. Crown pulled out and the balance stops. Can be difficult to figure it out without the stem, clutch etc in place.

Anilv

[Rafael]

15 hours ago, anilv said:

Its movement is linked to the stem position. Crown pulled out and the balance stops. Can be difficult to figure it out without the stem, clutch etc in place.

Anilv

Thanks Anilv. Tried testing everything assembled. Still no luck. 

[Rafael]

22 hours ago, Tudor said:

If it runs fine in all other positions I'd be looking at all the bottom side pivots/end stones and checking end shake (and side shake) on everything that moves...

It is possible the hacking lever is deformed and hitting the balance wheel when it drops toward the rear/bottom of the movement- easy test is to leave it out and try. BUT, there shouldn't be soo much end shake in the balance wheel that it's falling into the stop lever, so you still need to check "everything".

Long shot: the balance wheel tuning screws are backed way out for some reason and fouling on the stop lever.

Unfortunately the escape wheel has no tuning screws. Maybe from factory and maybe replaced in the past.

 

Will try and check pivots and jewels again. I think i'll order a generic upper cap jewel from Cousins just in case since this the only jewel I can replace with no special equipment which I don't have.

I really can't figure out how to adequately check if something is off in the pivots.

[Rafael]

@HSL, is there a way you can share with me the service manual?

[HSL]

Yes ofcourse. Here is a slightly washed version of it, since the most Rolexes has the same service procedure they usually compile the data like this. The 1500 series starts at page 7.
ROLEX TSI HSL EDITION.pdf

[Rafael]

So a quick update - decided to be brave and remove the balance from the balance cock (successfully, what a pain in the neck) and discovered that the lower pivot of the balance staff is broken, so this explains everything 

I think that although a generic balance staff is easily sourced (as opposed to a complete balance - NOS or generic), replacing it seems quite complicated and I will need to first buy a staking set which is quite pricy as well. 

I guess I will need to try and figure this out further. Maybe find a professional watchmaker only for the balance staff replacement.

[Tudor]

A mounted wheel is another option. 

[Rafael]

22 minutes ago, Tudor said:

A mounted wheel is another option. 

Just looking through ebay (originally thought you're referring to a technique and then realised it's the balance wheel mounted).

Edited October 7, 2020 by Rafael

[Tudor]

Probably listed as “balance wheel complete” which is what I’d be looking for in your position. 
 

I have a staking set inbound but zero experience as of now and those parts get expensive FAST to learn on...

[Rafael]

Found an original balance wheel (with no hairspring) at a decent price. Can you think of any problems with replacing the hairspring between my wheel with the broken pivot and the new wheel with the non-broken pivot? 

[Rafael]

13 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Found an original balance wheel (with no hairspring) at a decent price. Can you think of any problems with replacing the hairspring between my wheel with the broken pivot and the new wheel with the non-broken pivot? 

Well, nevermind. Read about it a bit and this looks like a bad option if balance complete can be found.

[Tudor]

Here’s a 1570 (chronometer version) that should fit. Same as in my 5512. 
 

Hairspring looks fine. 
 

Im not certain the hairspring anchor is the same but I think so. I can check my tech sheets later. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-1570-Complete-Balance-Wheel-Works/164420505891?hash=item264839d123:g:RlMAAOSwgxpfefl6

Another

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-Rolex-1556-1570-1575-1575-GMT-8106-Balance-Wheel-Complete-Open-Package/114419885217?hash=item1aa3f4e4a1:g:S2YAAOSwHuVfZ6aK

and a 1530 that’s more money

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Rolex-Watch-Movement-1530-Part-Complete-Balance-Wheel-7855/363042151014?hash=item5486ff9a66:g:DEUAAOSwG6RfBLBK

Edited October 8, 2020 by Tudor

[Tudor]

1530 "Balance with Breguet hairspring, timed" P/N 7855

1560 "Balance with Breguet hairspring, timed" P/N 7980

 

Now, my 1530 sheet is the older one, with the " butterfly" rotor. I cannot determine if the parts are interchangeable from my scans. It could be a simple upgrade with the newer movement or it could be an incompatible part.

[Rafael]

So i've got some follow up questions which I hope you can help me with - 

1. The Parts List lists two types of mainsprings - a strong one and a weak one. I can see that the strong one is the most popular but i'm not sure as to when you use what.

2. The Rolex service manual lists the KT22 for the winding mechanism. Is it still considered a good alternative or should I use Mo 9510?

3. It also looks like they are specifically advising not to grease the barrel walls even with an automatic movement. Should I put on some braking grease nonetheless?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rafael

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Rafael

[JohnR725]

I feel like I'm arriving late to the party but I will see what I can do to enlighten

On 10/5/2020 at 12:10 PM, Tudor said:

Long shot: the balance wheel tuning screws are backed way out for some reason and fouling on the stop lever.

when we have a discussion I usually always post a link to ranfft.de because we get a description and a picture of the watch. because if we have a decent picture and description and providing anyone pays attention then the answers will be more meaningful.

For instance the answer up above is a really interesting answer except I can't seem to find the tuning/timing screws on this balance wheel because they don't exist.

I'm attaching the parts list and the technical information sheet for this caliber. You'll notice that unlike conventional Rolex watches that there is a regulator. More than likely because of the regulator they hairspring terminal curve will be different. From two separate sources as far as I can tell the balance complete for the 1520 only interchanges with the 1525. But the balance wheel in itself may interchange with other calibers. But unfortunately the hairspring is not a separate component and it's usually frowned upon swapping hairspring. This means that you better get the right balance complete unless you like expensive lessons.

it would be really nice if the person who started this discussion would get us a decent photograph of your balance wheel looking straight down so we can see what they hairspring looks like.

Then even the Rolex parts list I don't think is describing the balance complete correctly. That's because it indicates that it has a Brequet hairspring. But some of the alleged balance complete some looking at show a flat hairspring with a terminal curve for the regulator pins. Then looking at other balance wheels that were suggested that might interchange they definitely have a Brequet hairspring.

3 hours ago, Rafael said:

The Rolex service manual lists the KT22 for the winding mechanism. Is it still considered a good alternative or should I use Mo 9510?

3. It also looks like they are specifically advising not to grease the barrel walls even with an automatic movement. Should I put on some braking grease nonetheless?

one of the problems with whatever you're looking at is it is out of date.

then yes 9501 would work fine for the locations that you're using a grease.

You have to look really really careful at the picture of the mainspring suggestion of lubrication because it can be confusing. There is no lubrication on the mainspring itself. But you are supposed to use breaking grease

 

 

954_Rolex 1520 new.pdf Rolex 1520-1525.pdf

[Rafael]

Hi @JohnR725, same guy and same movement from the hairspring replacement thread

Since the question was not originally about the movement but on the hacking spring, I didn't upload any pics. 

As for 2 - I'll ask differently - Is KT22 considered a good grease for winding mechanisms? Or in any case it should be advisable to use Mo 9501?

As for 3 - The information I have is based on the service manual HSL provided, which if I read it correctly, states not to lubricate the walls of the barrel. Screenshot attached below.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Rafael

[JohnR725]

I've attached images out of the tech sheet for the 1520.

35 minutes ago, Rafael said:

KT22 considered a good grease for winding mechanisms? Or in amy case it should be advisable to use Mo 9150

according to the link KT22 looks like it should be a good lubricant and supposedly it seals moisture? It's not what I would use but lubrication tends to be a personal choice. then I assume that 9510 is really 9501 found that the second link? We use a lot of that at work. That's the grease of choice most of the time. My favorite used to be pml stem grease. that can be found at the third link. Then problem is the tech sheets are out of date Rolex would currently have new recommended choices.

https://www.esslinger.com/kt22-microlubricant-watch-grease-and-moisture-sealer/

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/greases

http://www.ofrei.com/page245.html