First go with a Kommandirskie

[bsoderling]

Just started on my first attempt to restore a Wostok Kommandirskie. Winding stem broken but crown still around with remaining stem in the crown.

 

The 2414 movement appears to be in surprisingly good condition and the casing should be ok with a bit of cleaning and polishing.

 

But...when searching for a winding stem all that show up seems to be kind of ”integrated” stem and crown.

 

Are these generic to fit all kinds of casings?

 

And how does these screw-down crowns work? I suppose there must be space for the stem to move in when the crown is screwed tight?

 

Grateful for some advice from some of the guys with a special interest in these russian wonders!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[yankeedog]

It's kind of a slip  clutch set up.and the length is determined  by the case.for the  most part all komandirskie cases are interchangeable. You can order new stems directly  from meranom. Fixing old ones is not practical. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by yankeedog

[bsoderling]

So the stem moves in/out inside the crown with a slip/lock function to allow for the screw down action? Makes sense.

I checked briefly the supplier you mentioned but couldn’t find any stems. Maybe I need to contact directly.

And there’s an overwhelming number of styles and casings still in production.

Any idea what mine could be called? From my point of view it looks like one of the more common with its 2-coloured bezel dots.

If the supplier is easy to communicate with, I guess I can send him a photo?

Are they easy to deal with, from your experience?






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[yankeedog]

go to meranom.com, click on shop, click on komandirskie classic parts, you will see it. it is listed as a crown.it will set you back a whole $3.00 US..It ought to fit, but even if it does not. it's not a loss to cry over.I do believe they will answer inquiries. for not a lot of money you can get a new case

Edited January 13, 2020 by yankeedog

[bsoderling]

Thanks a lot, that’s definitely worth a try!




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[Ruairidh]

A question of my own. Does the  Kommandirskie have a loose crown like on the Amphibia or is that design feature exclusive to the Amphibia?

[bsoderling]

Now you are making me curious...

Can you expand on "loose crown" a bit for my understanding?

Is it about that slip-clutch function mentioned earlier in the thread or a more conventional design with a stem and a screw-on crown ?

 

 

[yankeedog]

I believe  the komandirskie  stem is of the same type as the amphibia.  Is has a loose and wobbly  feeling  about it.it is normal  for the type..supposed  to stop shock  from being transferred  to the movement.  To me that sounds like hype.

Edited January 15, 2020 by yankeedog

[yankeedog]

There is alot of mechanical  incest in the amphibia / komandirskie  lines ..biggest  differences are stainless vs plated case on komandirskie..thicker  crystal  / case back and fatter gaskets on amphibia. All dials and movements  will  pretty  much  swap  out provided you have a back that  will  accommodate  a rotor on an automatic and the correct retainer ring and stem. I am pretty  sure that all komandirskie  with 24xx movement  use the same stem while amphibia  stems vary in length  according  to case type. I may be in error  of course  .but this is my understanding  . The 22xx are another  animal  entirely.  The dials will not interchange with the 24xx and the stems have a different  business  end and do not interchange either.you can however  retrofit a 22xx into a 24xx case provided  you have correct stem and ring. Case crown threads being the same. Earlier  komandirskie  did not have a threaded crown..I think they got them when the transition  from 22xx to 24xx happened. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by yankeedog

[Ruairidh]

Yes the loose crown on the Amphibia was to absorb impact so that Vostok could save money and produce a case without a crown guard. They are, as i'm sure anyone who has ever handled one will know, built to a very strict budget. 

[yankeedog]

Yes I would say case excepted the amphibia it very ordinary. I have thought  about a movement  uprade.

Edited January 15, 2020 by yankeedog

[Ruairidh]

That would be a sensible idea as although a very rugged movement the one found in the amphibia has a habit of being very inaccurate. 

[bsoderling]

Thanks for the added discussion. I mailed Meranom and had a quick response that the offered stem likely work but no guararantees. Sounds reasonable enough to take the chance for 3$

Beginning to realize that these watches are both simple and complex at the same time. But it’s fun that the Vostok factory is still producing in spite of decades of turmoil. And the brand characteristics is maintained.

I will start to service my 2414 movement, order a new stem and try to make a wearable watch out of it.





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[yankeedog]

19 hours ago, Ruairidh said:

That would be a sensible idea as although a very rugged movement the one found in the amphibia has a habit of being very inaccurate. 

I am not  too crazy about the 24xx series. I think the 22xx series  is simpler more accurate  and more robust. It is very  much like  their  2809 but smaller  and built  to looser specs.

[bsoderling]

Hi again...

Got started on servicing the 2414 and immediately ran into a new problem.

Turns out the centre wheel shaft, driven by the main spring barrel has come loose from its wheel and no force is being transitted further to the wheel train. The wheel still sits securely on the shaft but spins freely.

Never experienced this problem in any movement before.

The attached photo shows the splines like arrangement that I presume is supposed to ”bite” into the wheel brass to secure it.

Would the appropriate thing to do to use my staking set on those shaft splines like teeth and hammer away (well not really...) to secure the wheel?






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[watchweasol]

Hi I would think It's feaseable to do that just enough to fix the wheel  though, no heavy hammer work  

[yankeedog]

Buy some scrap  movements  from Latvia  or Ukraine. 

[bsoderling]

Think I managed to tighten the grip on the wheel with some light tapping in the staking set. I guess I will see if it holds up...

There seems to be a few people offering scrap movements for spares on ebay but not at all as many as one can find with some of the more generic ones.

Meranom was helpful and replied back quickly on my crown/stem enquiry. But apparently he doesn’t accept orders below an amount that makes the 3$ plus postage, customs fee etc.spin off to a lot more than I paid for the watch to start with.






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[rogart63]

Have a box full of Vostok parts if you need anything bsoderling. I need a crown for a Vostok swing lug i am about to service . Have a few contacts that could have that . Maybe they have a crown for you watch also . I  bought  parts from Ukraina . They sent it from Holland . So was inside EU . I think they have crown. I shall see if i can find it . 

[bsoderling]

Hi Rogart,

I know you’re a man of resources. Please let me know by message if anything should show up.


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[vext01]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but has anyone ever encountered a service manual for these Vostok movements? Even if they are in Russian language, even the diagrams would be of help.

Thanks

[AndyHull]

42 minutes ago, vext01 said:

Sorry to hijack the thread, but has anyone ever encountered a service manual for these Vostok movements? Even if they are in Russian language, even the diagrams would be of help.

Thanks

Strictly speaking you should start a new thread, however this link may help, not strictly a service manual, but in some ways every bit as good.
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f54/vostok-caliber-2414-service-notes-very-long-many-pics-226237.html

.. and of course, Mark's video is an excellent resource too.

A search of Watchrepairtalk will give you more useful tips.

[vext01]

1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

Strictly speaking you should start a new thread

Oops. My apologies. Next time I will.

1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

but in some ways every bit as good.
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f54/vostok-caliber-2414-service-notes-very-long-many-pics-226237.html

That is indeed very good! Thanks for the link!

1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

.. and of course, Mark's video is an excellent resource too.

Until now I've been using youtube videos, but I find it's also nice to have the service manual on-hand. I've been unable to find any for vostok movements.

[AndyHull]

25 minutes ago, vext01 said:

Until now I've been using youtube videos, but I find it's also nice to have the service manual on-hand. I've been unable to find any for vostok movements.

There are some manuals available, but there doesn't seem to be one source for everything. A bunch of useful stuff is here -> https://forums.watchuseek.com/sitemap/f-54.html

If you want USER manuals you could try here -> https://www.russian-watches.info/russian-watches-user-manuals/
.. but who ever needs a USER manual

Finally, a bunch of Russian watch sites... https://forums.watchuseek.com/f54/russian-watch-links-interest-13891.html

Google translate may be required unless your Russian language skills are up to the task.

Edited January 27, 2020 by AndyHull

[bsoderling]

Hi all,

Just wanted to wrap this one up and show where it ended.

Finally decided to purchase the stem/crown from ebay seller ”bestrus” who was able to point me towards the correct item for the somewhat older style casing I have. He even threw in an extra free dial that looks ok and may come handy at some point.

Only the yellow crown available, these are apparently getting quite rare.

Rivetting the wheel onto the stem (that this thread started with) seems to work ok. Came loose once and had to redo the operation with a bit more force. Crossing my fingers it will stay put...

M/s turned out to be broken but found a close enough one in my small stash that gives an amplitude up around 300 degrees, fully wound.

Picture attached. Nothing fancy and a bit rough around the edges but quite ok as a start and I will definitely keep my eyes open for the next one.




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