Omega 26.5T3 alternative hairsprings ?

[mikepilk]

I had an accident whilst trying to take some 'coning' out of the hairspring on an Omega 26.5T3 - I had it on a balance tack, which I knocked over (it happens ) - completely mangling the spring.

It was so distorted (including the Brequet Overcoil) that I had to straighten the outer coils just to figure out where to start.

I'm starting to get it in to some sort of shape. I'm pretty confident of getting the coils in to a workable state, but I'm not sure I'm up to the overcoil. I've tried before and failed.

My chance of finding a replacement hairspring is virtually nil.

Is there any chance of finding a hairspring from another type of movement which would be close enough to use - or is it not even worth considering ? 

Did Omega manufacture the balance/hairspring themselves, or where they generic parts ?  

I just bought a copy of the BestFIt catalogue and the 'Complete Balance' number (477) is only used on the Omega cal 100, and the 26.5T1/3 which are derivatives of it.

So it looks like I'll have to improve my skill with the tweezers ?  

I have the 'Chicago School of Watchmaking Lessons' which had detailed instructions on how to make an overcoil, but it does mention using 'overcoil tweezers'.

[nickelsilver]

I'm very much an optimist but that hairspring is done. An extremely skilled watchmaker might get it "tickable" after some hard hours of work but it will never look right or keep time correctly again.

Almost all companies bought their hairsprings from a few main suppliers. Others bought the escapement and balance complete from a supplier; here the basic escapement parts like wheel, fork and roller table were likely from an established "set" but the pinion, arbor, and balance staff as well as balance were often unique to a caliber or few calibers.

Even two watches of the same caliber made the same day could have utterly non-interchangeable hairsprings. In some cases with careful reduction of screw weight or addition of timing washers a hairspring can be adapted. Sometimes theres a little extra bit of spring that can be slipped out at the stud or a little can be taken in. Generally it's just easier to vibrate a new spring. Which brings up the fact that raw springs are scarce and no new raw springs are available (unless you buy many of the same CGS).

[clockboy]

The old spring is a goner. Getting a replacement is going to be a long process I have used this company in the past for rare parts; It might be worth contacting them

http://www.urdelar.se/index.php?route=common/home

[mikepilk]

45 minutes ago, clockboy said:

The old spring is a goner. Getting a replacement is going to be a long process I have used this company in the past for rare parts; It might be worth contacting them

http://www.urdelar.se/index.php?route=common/home

Thanks for the advice. I tried all the usual sources without success, that's one I haven't found before.

I'll see what I can do with the spring, even if it's only for the practice. I don't want to end up selling the watch for parts, but it might be a long wait until I find a suitable spring.

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

I'm very much an optimist but that hairspring is done. An extremely skilled watchmaker might get it "tickable" after some hard hours of work but it will never look right or keep time correctly again.

Almost all companies bought their hairsprings from a few main suppliers. Others bought the escapement and balance complete from a supplier; here the basic escapement parts like wheel, fork and roller table were likely from an established "set" but the pinion, arbor, and balance staff as well as balance were often unique to a caliber or few calibers.

Even two watches of the same caliber made the same day could have utterly non-interchangeable hairsprings. In some cases with careful reduction of screw weight or addition of timing washers a hairspring can be adapted. Sometimes theres a little extra bit of spring that can be slipped out at the stud or a little can be taken in. Generally it's just easier to vibrate a new spring. Which brings up the fact that raw springs are scarce and no new raw springs are available (unless you buy many of the same CGS).

There is a Renata complete balance replacement - 268. But they seem about as common as the original parts ! 

I''m only vaguely aware of how to vibrate a new spring - but how does it work if you have an overcoil ?

[JohnR725]

32 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I''m only vaguely aware of how to vibrate a new spring - but how does it work if you have an overcoil

Traditionally with watches the hairspring is vibrated to the specific balance wheel. This is why you can't just swap generic hairsprings that visually look the same because they're not going to be the same. Then there is the problem with the overcoil vibrating a hairspring and getting it's characteristics correct then putting the overcoil on and having it exactly where it's supposed to be is extremely challenging. This is why American pocket watch companies didn't do that the hairsprings were made separate from the balance wheels. The only way this works is you have to have timing screws to get the balance wheel to now match the hairspring.

then there used to actually be services that would vibrate hairsprings for balance wheels but they seem to all be disappearing with time.

[rodabod]

That hairspring is toast. If you can’t find a 26.5 balance then try finding a 30t2 or later equivalent if it fits. The non-inca staff length is the same, but you’d maybe have to change if it’s an inca version. May also require a little work on the overcoil depending on the radius of the indexing pins. 

[rogart63]

Tissot or Lemania? It's one of those that use the same hairspring? 

[mikepilk]

15 hours ago, rodabod said:

That hairspring is toast. If you can’t find a 26.5 balance then try finding a 30t2 or later equivalent if it fits. The non-inca staff length is the same, but you’d maybe have to change if it’s an inca version. May also require a little work on the overcoil depending on the radius of the indexing pins. 

Thanks, that's useful info. It is a non-inca balance - I just changed the staff. 

It would be useful if there was a list of the diameter of the balances - then I could look for a similar balance+overcoil hairspring (running at 18000). Maybe, as you say,  have to tweek the overcoil, and even change the staff (if the hole is the same size).

Edited December 28, 2018 by mikepilk

[mikepilk]

15 hours ago, rogart63 said:

Tissot or Lemania? It's one of those that use the same hairspring? 

I guessed that there might be Tissot using the same balance, but it doesn't show any in Bestfit (or for Lemania)

[SteveF]

Funny I should come across this particular thread because I have a hairspring that I’ve just knocked the collet off!! It was too loose on the balance wheel and I was trying to tighten it (of course I failed!). 
So I’m looking for a new balance myself. The hairspring is in quite good shape but obviously doesn’t have a collet now, so I don’t know if you’ll be able to use it. I wouldn’t dream of trying to refit the collet myself because I know exactly what would happen!!

[mikepilk]

In the end I got a balance from a donor movement.

Fitting the collet back on is not that difficult. If you are not confident, get an old scrap balance and practice on removing and refitting the collet. 

[Nucejoe]

@SteveF ,  Go on to Dr ranfft website, 

Enter keywords

Omega 26.5T3  ranfft .

 There Dr ranfft  has listed all related calibers to this family, all which beat the same frequency,  any balance complete of this family fit your watch. This would only expenad your choice of balance complete. 

Recolleting your hairspring is easy, but matching it with a balance of the family is challanging.

Regs

 

 

 

 

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

  Go on to Dr ranfft website, 

[SteveF]

Funny I should come across this particular thread because I have a hairspring that I’ve just knocked the collet off!! It was too loose on the balance wheel and I was trying to tighten it (of course I failed!). 
So I’m looking for a new balance myself. The hairspring is in quite good shape but obviously doesn’t have a collet now, so I don’t know if you’ll be able to use it. I wouldn’t dream of trying to refit the collet myself because I know exactly what would happen!!

If I wanted to refit the collet to the hairspring (assuming I can find the original as it’s on the floor somewhere!!) where would I find a taper pin small enough? As some of you may know, this whole thing is tiny!!

[mikepilk]

Cousins sell collets and fixing pins. 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/hairspring-collets-pins-studs-boots