Unusual full Westminster 2 train clock origin unkown ?

[wls1971]

I'm about to start work on the following clock Its a two train full Westminster strike clock I'm unsure of the origins of this clock but would presume that it is French although the seller suggested it was made by Mauthe and of German origin but I have never seen a movement like it before. The striking train is controlled by a differential gear which locks out the chime train once it has finished its sequence on the hour thus allowing it to strike the hours.

The differential gearing used in this clock was patented by Gillett and Johnston in 1923 and used by them in both weight driven clocks and Fusee clocks it was also used by Elliott in spring driven platform and pendulum clocks but I don't think this movement is of English origin.

 

The differential gear that drives the chime and strike

 

The mechanism does work extremely well apart from being very dirty, it is a well made quality movement.

 

There is only a serial number on the clock and a small stamped letter J anyone have a idea about the origins of this movement ?

 

 

[oldhippy]

I cannot be 100% because this is a first for me. I am not happy with the finish of the screws and parts of the movement. That is why I do not think it is French. I do not think it is made by Mauthe. There clocks had a mark (see photo) I’m sure it is German as there is a J I wonder if it was made by Junghans.

[Tmuir]

Now that is an interesting clock, never seen one like that before.

[wls1971]

Thanks for the reply's yes the screws are not highly polished as you would expect on a French clock , but the suspension Brocot adjustment made me think it was perhaps french in origin, I shall clean it up I have on occasion found makers marks on the inner plate surfaces so I shall see if anything comes up whilst cleaning.

The J could be Junghans but that is usually stamped within a star this is not, the clock was retailed by a English Jeweller, the only other observation is that the Hands are of a style that I have only ever seen used on Winterhalder clocks and I have a 3/4 Westminster two train clock with the exact same hands fitted that clock of course does not do the chimes on the hour but just strikes the hours.

I shall post more pictures as I clean the clock.

Many thanks

[clockboy]

A new one for me, I suspect German

[Lenj]

22 hours ago, oldhippy said:

 

I cannot be 100% because this is a first for me. I am not happy with the finish of the screws and parts of the movement. That is why I do not think it is French. I do not think it is made by Mauthe. There clocks had a mark (see photo) I’m sure it is German as there is a J I wonder if it was made by Junghans.

Here it is..what ever it means..

F.M.S. (im Kreis mit Adler)

Friedrich Mauthe GmbH

Großuhren; Schwenningen, Deutschland; registriert am 28.1.1925

Len

[Lenj]

23 hours ago, wls1971 said:

I'm about to start work on the following clock Its a two train full Westminster strike clock I'm unsure of the origins of this clock but would presume that it is French although the seller suggested it was made by Mauthe and of German origin but I have never seen a movement like it before. The striking train is controlled by a differential gear which locks out the chime train once it has finished its sequence on the hour thus allowing it to strike the hours.

The differential gearing used in this clock was patented by Gillett and Johnston in 1923 and used by them in both weight driven clocks and Fusee clocks it was also used by Elliott in spring driven platform and pendulum clocks but I don't think this movement is of English origin.

 

The differential gear that drives the chime and strike

 

The mechanism does work extremely well apart from being very dirty, it is a well made quality movement.

 

There is only a serial number on the clock and a small stamped letter J anyone have a idea about the origins of this movement ?

 

 

Another beautiful unusual movement, where do you get them from??

[wls1971]

27 minutes ago, Lenj said:

Another beautiful unusual movement, where do you get them from??

It was a Ebay purchase I was drawn to the ingenious solution to getting a full Westminster strike from a two train clock, when its running it works extremely well but like all these two train Westminster clocks it has a huge spring on the strike train.

I have had further correspondence with the seller he states that he thinks it Mauthe because he has had  a similar movement that was stamped Mauthe 

" I`ve had a Mauthe clock before which was stamped, but the movements were very similar. I took it to the British Horological open day and the general opinion was that it was more like a Mauthe than anything else!
Mauthe senior, had a son who registered a business in France post WW1 and I wonder if that might be the answer?"

The differential strike controller was invented by Gillet and Johnston in 1923 and is very similar in design using a differential gear that locks out the chimes when they have completed the sequence on the hour and letting the hour strike run,

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/cb/23/0f/34b4fc44f86b51/US1468267.pdf

 

[Lenj]

1 hour ago, wls1971 said:

It was a Ebay purchase I was drawn to the ingenious solution to getting a full Westminster strike from a two train clock, when its running it works extremely well but like all these two train Westminster clocks it has a huge spring on the strike train.

I have had further correspondence with the seller he states that he thinks it Mauthe because he has had  a similar movement that was stamped Mauthe 

" I`ve had a Mauthe clock before which was stamped, but the movements were very similar. I took it to the British Horological open day and the general opinion was that it was more like a Mauthe than anything else!
Mauthe senior, had a son who registered a business in France post WW1 and I wonder if that might be the answer?"

The differential strike controller was invented by Gillet and Johnston in 1923 and is very similar in design using a differential gear that locks out the chimes when they have completed the sequence on the hour and letting the hour strike run,

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/cb/23/0f/34b4fc44f86b51/US1468267.pdf

 

If you look further up the page, I found your clock, and Yes it's Frederick Mauthe. Good find. Date are about right 1925.

 

Len

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Lenj

[wls1971]

24 minutes ago, Lenj said:

If you look further up the page, I found your clock, and Yes it's Frederick Mauthe. Good find. Date are about right 1925.

 

Mauthe must have had some kind of agreement to manufacture them because they would have been a clear infringement of Gillett and Johnstons Patent, the system of regulating the strike is almost identical.

[oldhippy]

I hope you can record the taking apart of this movement and showing the parts. It would be wonderful if you could record the action of the works.

You never stop learning in horology. I’m seeing and learning something all new to me.  

[wls1971]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

 

I hope you can record the taking apart of this movement and showing the parts. It would be wonderful if you could record the action of the works.

You never stop learning in horology. I’m seeing and learning something all new to me.  

Well I should yes its such an unusual and ingenious way of getting a full chime sequence from two springs, i wonder why it never caught on it works so well, I shall have to video the works in action, but work beckons tomorrow so will have to do it next week.

[Lenj]

Sorry WLS I was quoting Old Hippy's logo, which IS Mauthe..

Len