Sizing replacement hands

[skridlov]

Among the large number of watches which we're trying to resuscitate (see my introduction post) the commonest minor fault is missing hands - usually blue steel. I've been wondering how to determine the shaft sizes required. Obviously if disassembled one could measure spindles with a micrometer but surely there's an easier way? Isn't there? Would identifying movements precisely allow this parameter to be looked up... somewhere? All informed opinions gratefully received.

Roy

[fjseal]

If you can identify the movement, you will most likely find it listed on the 'Ranfft.de' website. Among other details, the hand shaft sizes are given.

Regards.

[skridlov]

Thanks FJS. I'd heard of that site and even looked at it. An old geezer forgets...

[clockboy]

I have one of these (Bergeon 30464)

However you can use tapered brass/steel rod & just mark where the hand sits snuggly & measure using a vernier. 

[skridlov]

That looks to be the tool required - as a Bergeon product I suspect I will need a mortgage. But unless I'm mistaken it doesn't enable one to measure the spindles when trying to replace missing hands. Or am I missing something?

Roy

[SSTEEL]

10 minutes ago, skridlov said:

That looks to be the tool required - as a Bergeon product I suspect I will need a mortgage. But unless I'm mistaken it doesn't enable one to measure the spindles when trying to replace missing hands. Or am I missing something?

Roy

Keep your eye on this auction..

New listing Watchmakers pocket watch Hand sizer tools Nice tools for watch repairer

[skridlov]

2 minutes ago, SSTEEL said:

Keep your eye on this auction..

New listing Watchmakers pocket watch Hand sizer tools Nice tools for watch repairer

Brilliant! Solves the spindle size problem too. I wonder what I'd have to pay?

[skridlov]

I'm hoping to win this auction - the sizing gauge (the WIT one) is completely unavailable it seems. Why would this be? I realise that a micrometer may sometimes be the only answer. 

Also, how does one deal with very small hand retraction? The standard pullers are really quite thick and after fitting a dial guard they're far too big to fit underneath the hands?

I'm guessing that the answer is "carefully" but are there any tricks?

Roy

[skridlov]

Even bidding 8 seconds before the end I failed to get these. (£66 + P&P!)

 The Bergeon style hand diameter gauge is easily available but a gauge to measure the pinions (term?) no longer seems to be made. These two were made by WIT who don't respond to emails. The main parts supplier in  UK (Cousins) can't obtain them. I'm baffled by this as trying to identify the movement and then source the appropriate data sheets is a lifetime's work given the number of missing hands I need to source. A micrometer is a very clumsy tool for this purpose.
Anyone know how to source one or an equivalent tool?
Roy

Edited February 2, 2017 by skridlov

[Marc]

Is this what you're looking for?

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/hand-gauge

In stock for £29.95 + vat and carriage.

This is only going to be any use if you already have hands that you can measure. Otherwise you have to measure the pinions and digital callipers are probably the most convenient for this.

[skridlov]

Hi Marc

this comes up repeatedly. That tool is pretty easy to source. Here is an almost identical version of the WIT tool that I failed to get in the ebay auction, it's essentially similar to a wire sizing tool:

http://www.terapeak.com/worth/vintage-quick-fit-hr-min-watch-repair-hand-gauge-w-h-m-hands-834-1-pr-luminous/252282408776/

It's equally unavailable.

Now I'm an absolute novice but I'm baffled as to the scarcity of what looks to me like the simplest solution to a common problem (it's common to me, at least, as I have dozens of movements with missing hands). I'd  guess my Chinese digital vernier calipers aren't accurate enough to accurately measure the tiny dimensions required. I've ordered a micrometer but it's a huge and clumsy way to measure  what could be done with a simple perforated plastic gauge. These elusive gauges look, to my naive eye, quite indispensable - what am I misunderstanding?

Roy

Edited February 3, 2017 by skridlov
correction

[Marc]

To me that looks like something for measuring the length of hands, not the size of the hole required to fit the pinion.

[skridlov]

Nope. Not a good pic but it has two series of holes down each side with sizes in lignes and mm alongside. The WIT version is almost identical and more recent. I can't see why anyone would need a special tool for measuring hands!

This whole issue has me completely hornswoggled.

Roy