Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

I have two of these Unitas A.T.P.  WW2 army issue watches (plus a spare movement), which I bought a few years ago - for about £100 each, if memory serves. There's one currently on eBay at:

Unitas A.T.P watch

Asking price? A cool £450. There are a couple of others also currently on eBay for a more realistic £30 or £40 - they'll probably go for around £100 or so at auction end. Now, the case back of the £450 watch has the letters "HMS HOOD" scratched roughly into the back. Which strikes me as odd. Why? The Hood, as I'm sure we all know, was sunk in 1941 by the Bismarck - with just 3 survivors. There's no acknowledgement of the ship's history or any other provenance in the eBay listing. (Like all their adverts on eBay, the Vintage Watch Company never post photos of the movements - which is annoying and why I've never bought from them).

Hmm...

Posted

So do I, Geo. I know I'm a bit paranoid about possible cons on eBay, and I could well be suspecting something from nothing, but it strikes me as a little odd.

[After edit]

Here's one of mine by the way - Unitas clearly marked on the face. They're lovely little movements, well made and keep good time. Hacking as well. I've got a new strap for it, but kept the original 1940 strap as a souvenir.

 

 

Unitas 173 1940 case outer.JPG

Unitas 173 1940 face 2.JPG

Unitas 173 1940 movement.JPG

Unitas 173 1940 old strap.JPG

  • Like 3
Posted

The website they have is very interesting again not a single picture of a watch movement, its filled with a lot of guff about why wristwatches are a sound investment, but at the prices they are charging you would have to wait generations before your family saw any return on your sound investment.

http://www.vintagewatchshop.com/about-us

 

Posted

Absolutely. I've seen one or two watches on their website, over the years, that interested me. However, whenever I contacted them to ask if they would be able to post a photo of a particular movement, I got shrugged off with something like it was too much bother. Other sellers have been more accommodating in doing so.

How the devil do they expect a reasonably serious collector to pay reasonably serious money for a watch when you can't see the movement condition?

:thumbsd:

Posted

It is interesting to note the complete absence of lume on either the dial or the hands.

Where as lume has a tendency to fall out of the hands over time, it is usually more resilient on the dial, but even where it does all come off the dial there would be evidence of where it had been.

If you look at Will's rather nice example you can clearly see that the dial printing includes printed outlines for the dial painter to fill with lume. Even after the lume had all gone the outlines would still be there.

I don't believe that the dial ever had lume applied, yet the open frame hands would have had lume. Luminous hands without luminous dial markers would be a pretty dumb combination so I'm happy that there is a complete mis-match between dial and hands.

 

  • Like 1
Posted

ATP means 'Army Trade Pattern' no? The seller states 'Army Time Piece'...willful misdirection? I would imagine they would know the correct meaning..!

Posted

It's a common mistake, Anil - or misdirection. A.T.P. does indeed stand for "Army Trade Pattern". There were many ATPs at that time, for all sorts of pieces of equipment - essentially sets of specifications for various manufacturers to make the same thing, That's why A.T.P. watches were supplied by different manufacturers such as Unitas, Leonidas, Omega, Rolex, etc.

I'm not totally sure, but I was under the impression that there were different specifications for the different branches of the Service - RAF specs were different from Army, which were different from the Navy - and different again for the submarine service. I think it would have been unusual for a watch marked A.T.P. to have been issued to a navy man - but I'm happy to stand corrected!

Posted
7 hours ago, WillFly said:

Now, the case back of the £450 watch has the letters "HMS HOOD" scratched roughly into the back. Which strikes me as odd. Why? The Hood, as I'm sure we all know, was sunk in 1941 by the Bismarck - with just 3 survivors. There's no acknowledgement of the ship's history or any other provenance in the eBay listing. (Like all their adverts on eBay, the Vintage Watch Company never post photos of the movements - which is annoying and why I've never bought from them).

Hmm...

I do see the broad arrow acceptance mark on it but I find its rather dubious, the broad arrow is very small on the eBay watch and the engraved ATP letters look too crisp and modern after so many years of use, compare the ATP and broad arrow stamp (which would have been placed on after the serial number) with the faint serial number. I also have reservations on the stainless steel marking. 

Compare for yourself with bonafide WW2 watches (below)

The ebay "HMS Hood"

s-l1600.jpg

 

540x360.jpg

undated Ebel model: https://www.the-saleroom.com/it-it/auction-catalogues/fellows-and-sons/catalogue-id-srfel10125/lot-609c306c-09f3-48f8-9cfb-a46e010f17b1 

IMG_5365.JPG

The above model is a 1944 watch: http://goldsmithworks.com/APPRAISAL/APRIL-12/RARE-1944-WWII-BRITISH-MILITARY-REVUE-SPORT-ATP-BROAD-ARROW.htm 

 

$_57.JPG

 http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?72073-Images-from-past-auctions 

 

 

 

 

$_57 (1).JPG

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I believe @nickelsilver has a setup like that.
    • I posted pictures earlier in this thread. My lathe and mill are two separate instruments. I think I have seen examples of putting a milling head on a lathe bed...but not certain.
    • Timex Camper, September 1994, new to me. Strap is an old perlon with "Germany" in script etched into the resin on the tail end. Not Horlon or Eulit I believe. History unknown, running strong, losing less than a minute a day. Goals for this: Wear it a ton! Buy crystal lift, clean out the gunk around the ring and under the crystal Eventually swap into a stainless steel case. I've seen a member who has swapped a Timex mechanical movement into the Timex J.Crew quartz field watch case.
    • One of the problems we would have with a watchmaker's lathe is they were made over considerable span of time and manufacturing in the early days probably wasn't as good as it was today. Then if you look at the older catalogs typically it was just the head a few collets and something to rest graver on. So basically a basic lathe with over time things acquired but acquired things may or may not fit. Order today you purchase a used lathe that all kinds of nifty bits and pieces from a seller that acquired from? This would come back to that the basic watchmaker's lathe was used for basic watchmaking like turning things with a hand graver. Then limited indexing is fine because you can make things like stems Which don't need a whole bunch indexing   In the link above the word vector is mentioned and at the link below you can purchase one. Then of course you're going to need the motor that's a little bit extra for the price. https://www.hswalsh.com/product/lathe-vector-watchmakers-48-collets-hl11. That you're going to need some bonus parts like these found this picture online show the classic way of classic gear cutting.   The lathe could have a much bigger indexing disk but it has to be mounted close to the edge. Otherwise you're going to have a whole bunch of smaller disks like this which I think has notches rather than holes. Then as wonderful as these pictures look actually cutting a gear with this is not entirely fun. Look at all is belts all pulling on things and this is a watchmaker's lathe lightweight with lots of bits and pieces attached. It would make more sense if you actually cut a gear with something like this and it tends to be it's not really the best way to do it looks nice on paper but it is not the best way to go. Reality for cutting watch parts would be a bigger machine is much better. Than getting rid of all those belts and pulleys also good. Here is an interesting channel I would've liked of found a different video but this was nice and short if you look at his video as he uses a stepping motor and worm gear assembly for the indexing plate. In this particular video it gets attached to the lathe at about one minute and seven seconds and it looks like it's hiding looks like he has a Sherline. I do know he's had other stuff you'll just have to go through his videos to find it. Then at about one minute and 22 seconds you find out if you set up things appropriately. It's always bad we end up with half a tooth at the very end. Then you will note big lathe yes he's getting a big gear but you could easily cut a watch gear with the setup. And it definitely way more stable than a watchmaker's lathe.         Oh here's a company they been in business since 1911 http://www.fwderbyshireinc.com/  
    • Hello and welcome from Leeds, England. 
×
×
  • Create New...