Balance Staff For Illinois 12S Pocket Watch

[jdrichard]

So after being told by the guys that my balance staff is shot, I need to order a new one. Where do I get one of these?

Note that because there seems to be almost no pivots on either end, I have estimated the length.

After I get the new staff, I then need install it, true the balance both flat and round and then put back the double roller table and safety table

HELP

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[clockboy]

I have used this company a few times see link below:

http://www.balancestaffs.com/illinois.php

[oldhippy]

They seam to be available on the internet.

[JohnR725]

I was having a hard time grasping your staff until I realized you broke part of it off removing it. So the first and the second link you can look up the serial number to get the model number were still missing a few pieces of information but I guessed. I notice now they have parts listing for Illinois watches but not a big help in that it lists three separate staffs.

Then I've attached some images which help to narrow the staff down. So the next piece a puzzle we needed single roller or double roller your staff looks like a two piece double roller. That narrows it down to 1425 and you get to guests at the pivots size.. 21 jewel watch it's probably the smallest pivots size.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/3921027

 

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/3921027/parts/Staffs

[jdrichard]

I was having a hard time grasping your staff until I realized you broke part of it off removing it. So the first and the second link you can look up the serial number to get the model number were still missing a few pieces of information but I guessed. I notice now they have parts listing for Illinois watches but not a big help in that it lists three separate staffs.

Then I've attached some images which help to narrow the staff down. So the next piece a puzzle we needed single roller or double roller your staff looks like a two piece double roller. That narrows it down to 1425 and you get to guests at the pivots size.. 21 jewel watch it's probably the smallest pivots size.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/3921027

 

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/3921027/parts/Staffs

It is a double two piece roller. I also need to measure it with my "inches" micrometer . I agree with you that it must be the 1425. I could try and measure the jewel hole size. Not sure how but will try and figure something out. I just recieved my seitz jeweling set so perhaps I can use one on the parts match the hole size??


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[jdrichard]

Still having a heck of a time sourcing the staff


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[jdrichard]

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[JohnR725]

So I was thinking it was strange that you couldn't find the pivots after all this is a relatively common watch? But my search for staffs have come up with almost nothing. I'm listing what I found below they just don't seem to exist anymore? Notice the pivots sizes are different it's always possible get a bigger pivot reduce it in size to match your jewels. Or change the jewels to match the balance. Then you always want to check the jewels because especially on the bigger watches when the staff breaks a lot of times the jewel goes with the staff.

http://www.ofrei.com/page324.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Swiss-Made-Illinois-12-Size-Pocket-Watch-Balance-Staff-S-02-/122122623039?hash=item1c6f13583f:g:Cj4AAOSwSzdXCbVN

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ILLINOIS-12s-BALANCE-STAFF-47615-PIVOT-10-5-NOS-/222091162940?hash=item33b5aa353c:g:ll4AAOSwE3BXFXSH

I was thinking we may be having an artificial shortage brought on by modern companies re-casing 12 size watches into wristwatches only to discover that pocket watches do not always make for good wristwatches particularly if there dropped. As an example here are two companies that are doing this sort of thing.

https://vorticwatches.com/

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1566530244/100-american-made-wristwatches-arcane-watch-co/description

 

 

[jdrichard]

So you have some excellent links here. These watch converters do seem to be buying up all the 12s illinois movements and perhaps the parts as well. I am going to keep hunting....perhaps for an old movement.

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[jdrichard]

The pivots on the second link look broken? I ordered the second one, free shipping so I am taking a chance on it.

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[szbalogh]

12 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

The pivots on the second link look broken? I ordered the second one, free shipping so I am taking a chance on it.

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Maybe a strange reflection of the background make it looking like a bent one.

[jdrichard]

Could be correct. I have a Facebook site called JDWatchboy where I have posted the old staff and the one I just bought from your third link. Have a look.


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[JohnR725]

Actually when you order balance staffs you're always taking a chance for variety of reasons. I once purchased a new Hamilton staff in an envelope sealed only to find the pivots were slightly rusted. Or for instance Bestfit has replacements staffs and they're almost always oversized on the grounds that you can reduce them to fit. So for the unsuspecting buyer assuming that they fit your in for a surprise.

So one modern watches brand-new in the package they're usually going to work. Older watches American pocket watch is where we don't know where the staffs are coming from anymore it becomes extremely important to measure the before and after staff to make sure everything's going to fit.

I agree on the picture it hopefully is an optical illusion it does look not quite right. I find when you're looking at staffs even with your loop it helps to rotate them because sometimes even then you'll get an optical illusion it looks bent..

[jdrichard]

So I did it. Replaced my first balance staff. I also change the impulse jewel on this watch so it was quite the adventure. In the end, truing the balance was the toughest job. And when I had it all together the balance just touched the center wheel when turned upside down. So I needed to true the balance again whole attached to the balance cock. Just noted where it was touching and muscled it with my fingers.https://vimeo.com/194183442


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[jdrichard]

I also had to bring down the pivots a bit with the Jacot.


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[Geo]

Well done JD, you should be well pleased with the result!

[jdrichard]

Well done JD, you should be well pleased with the result! [emoji4]

Thanks Geo. I have done a crap load of reading to get to where I am today.


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[jdrichard]

I did learn something here. You need to very lightly tap in the hair spring collet else the balance will warp. This actually happened to be before but I had forgotten. As well, I used the jacot tool to burnish the pivots and actually straightened one of the out. Worked great.


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[jdrichard]

Funny but at the bottom of the face plate on this watch, it says Swiss?


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