Ultrasonic bath... how long?

[szbalogh]

Just put my Stowa pocket watch parts in the ultrasonic bath. The solution is already grey after 5 minutes.... How long should i leave it in there? My aim is to remove hard gummed oils. And plan to clean again all parts separately before reassembly.

[ro63rto]

For really dirty parts, put them in a small jar filled with cleaning solution then put that jar into the ultrasonic filled with water.

That way you dont contaminate litres of cleaning solution.

Keep replacing the solution in the jar until it doesn't change colour or you are happy with the cleanliness of the parts inside it.

[clockboy]

Agree pre-clean the really dirty movements to preserve your cleaning solutions.

[Marc]

Not ultra-sonic but I have a spare set of jars for my cleaning machine.

Whenever I change the cleaning solutions the old stuff goes into the spare jars specifically for use as a pre-clean on the really grotty movements.

Usually a very dirty movement goes in whole prior to disassembly and goes through a complete wash/rinse/dry cycle in the old chemistry before I break it down to component level for a proper clean in the fresh stuff.

This not only helps to get the most out of the cleaning fluids but it can also help to ease the disassembly process, even helping to free up really tight or stuck screws.

[bobm12]

And about the time....between 3 and 10 minutes I'd say....Usually 3 but it can be repeated until you are satisfied.

[szbalogh]

Thank You all! It was around 10 minutes. Made some pictures.

To the used cleaning liquid. What about distillation to recycle it?

[szbalogh]

Ah and one more question. The bath is shaking parts with a high frequency. Can it happen that it is shaking out like pallet jewels? Or i dont need to fear from such events?

[clockboy]

A mistake I made a few years ago with an ultra sonic is I used a very warm solution. The result was the pallet jewels came loose & I had to re-set them. BUM I said or something like that.     

[bobm12]

That's one reason you may want to limit how long because it becomes hot...but somehow not too hot to cause what CB describes if the chemicals are used at room temperature (by the time they get too hot, the process is already over so to speak)...I suppose we are talking about a "regular" ultrasonic, not a home brewed one...

The chemicals could be an issue if they are not the "customary" ones for this application, since alcohol based chemicals will act on the shellac in addition of being flammable. Flammable chemicals are not recommended for ultrasonics.

[vinn3]

if your solution gets dirty ,  it can be filtered.. one step in cleaning a very dirty clock or watch. i like, is soap and water.  if the watch is thurally dried,   it will not contaminate your solution when back in to the solution

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, szbalogh said:

My aim is to remove hard gummed oils

I think you're going to find that hard gummy oil conceivably may never come off especially in pivots which is why you're supposed to use peg wood.

Then commercial cleaning fluids are made out of variety of substances one of which is used to brighten the plates so they come out nice and shiny. That is a really nice but leave it into long and you start etching plates. This is why typically I won't go over five minutes with ultrasonic cleaning and the solution. It does depend upon temperature if the solutions hot it's going to be much more aggressive.

Then alcohol and shellac they're all a little different. The machine at work the last two rinses are isopropyl alcohol it seems to have zero effect on shellac. I use wood alcohol at home but limit the exposure to just a few seconds as the very very final rinse.They change the formula of the commercial rinse I was using and it didn't seem to want to dry as fast even with heat so a final final rinse of alcohol and I had no problems with that.

Then when working on pocket watches especially old pocket watches always check the jewels afterwards anyway. The shellac will become old possibly with time and sometimes it's not shellac. The longer the watches had exposure to a variety of repair people the more creative they've gotten so it's always good to check to make sure the jewels are still in place.

 

[szbalogh]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I think you're going to find that hard gummy oil conceivably may never come off especially in pivots which is why you're supposed to use peg wood.

Then commercial cleaning fluids are made out of variety of substances one of which is used to brighten the plates so they come out nice and shiny. That is a really nice but leave it into long and you start etching plates. This is why typically I won't go over five minutes with ultrasonic cleaning and the solution. It does depend upon temperature if the solutions hot it's going to be much more aggressive.

Then alcohol and shellac they're all a little different. The machine at work the last two rinses are isopropyl alcohol it seems to have zero effect on shellac. I use wood alcohol at home but limit the exposure to just a few seconds as the very very final rinse.They change the formula of the commercial rinse I was using and it didn't seem to want to dry as fast even with heat so a final final rinse of alcohol and I had no problems with that.

Then when working on pocket watches especially old pocket watches always check the jewels afterwards anyway. The shellac will become old possibly with time and sometimes it's not shellac. The longer the watches had exposure to a variety of repair people the more creative they've gotten so it's always good to check to make sure the jewels are still in place.

 

Thank you! Currently i dont have commercial cleaning fluid, used benzine from the pharmacy instead. The plates are not siny. 

At first disasdembly i had to pull hard on the escape wheel, it was so hard gummed. Now the escape wheel bridge jewel is nice clean. So this ultrabath is an awsome equipment. 

The watch however running currently without oil -10 min a day. I will demagnetize and repair the hairspring's bent terminal curve and if all is set will strip it again for a second ultrabath.

Got a blower ball today and used tried it on the wet parts. It is so good that i had blown the clickspring away... couldnt find it.

Edited September 2, 2016 by szbalogh

[JohnR725]

51 minutes ago, szbalogh said:

benzine from the pharmacy

The next time you're at the pharmacy ask what the health differences between the exposure to benzine or benzene? Noticed two different spellings there actually two different substances. Both are used as solvents one of them as extremely bad health consequences on exposure to. Just make sure the version you're using doesn't have the same bad health consequences

One of the problems with hobbyists for cleaning fluid is it may be hard to get. The problem becomes the variety of solvents art always a good substitute for the commercial cleaning fluids and the wrong choice could have consequences.

Then cleaning and rinse isn't exactly technically correct. The entire process is cleaning. The cleaning fluids have a variety of chemicals to dissolve the lubrication brighten the plates hopefully put everything in the solution so it comes off the parts. The rinse is actually a continuation of the cleaning process just a diluting the concentration of the chemicals found in the cleaner. So at the very end of your cleaning process all the bad stuff is hopefully been removed everything is clean.

[szbalogh]

Thank you for the warning and info. Monday i can measure exact composition of that fluid Also could measure the dedicated watch-cleaning fluid composition if i had a mL sample