Timegrapher- too many ticks

[RyMoeller]

Has anyone seen this result on their timegrapher before?  I'm using the inexpensive version from China and it hasn't led me wrong yet but today on the screen I have an interesting mystery that's currently stumping me.

A little background- the watch is a Pierce Chronograph calibre 134.  I cleaned and lubricated the movement and found it to be running ridiculously fast.  It was clear the hairspring had been replaced in the past (see image below) so I figured I would swap it with a good Pierce hairspring and if that didn't fix the problem I would assume the balance to be too light.  Well, the watch may be running slower now but it's hard to tell since the timegrapher can't map the time- it appears to be registering too many beats.

I have reason to believe the stones in the palette fork are not properly set (at the correct depth) but at this point I'm just wondering if anyone has seen this result before and if so where it may have led you.

 

[szbalogh]

If You just swapped the spring then there is no reason for pallet stones error if there was none before. Do You hear the additional ticks? There are a few options. Try another timegrapher. There are three android apps with different features that can lead to some information. The Watch-O-Scope is awsome, maybe You can use the microphone of the chinese timegrapher. Is the beat rate adjustable on this machine? Maybe it is to slow or to fast for it to understand the ticks. Is the impulse pin adjusted between the two bankings? 

Edited June 21, 2016 by szbalogh

[oldhippy]

The balance wheel has been played about with. The timing screws do not match, one has been filed off, another has been fitted with a timing washer. The pin in the stud is a monster and should be replaced. I'm not surprised the watch isn't keeping good time. You need a new balance complete. Have you poised the balance?  

[StuartBaker104]

Cousins has the balance complete for about £15. I bought one a while back, but the watch is currently in pieces on my bench as it was running really badly.

My balance has too much end shake, the barrel arbour holes in the plates need   rebushing as does the next wheel in the train. This means the whole thing does not transmit power evenly. I didn't really look hard at it first time around as I was focused on whether I could fix the chrono runner. I have concluded that my next step is to bring one of my part movements in to play and start with the plates from that.

Your timegrapher trace is odd with the four lines. I would be inclined to start from first principles and check the whole drive train adding one piece at a time. If you've already built it, this will mean stripping the chrono section off, but this is the only way!

S

[jdm]

Is it possible that trying to get right cheap//poor Chinese movements is the same fighting windmills?

Here's a blog entry from someone that loves them but had to throw the towel

Quote

Unlike the ETA/Unitas, the  wheel  train bridge on the Seagull simply refuses to fit easily. In fact, it's quite difficult and takes a significant amount of time and effort to work.
Once you  oil  the jewels, the wheels do not remain in place so the bridge doesn't ease onto the train. The primary issue revolves around the fourth wheel. It has too much end shake and refuses to remain in a stable position. The third wheel does not reach the fourth and the escape wheel receives no power. To correct the flaw, the fourth wheel requires an adjustment after the bridge goes into position.
I can understand this happening with a single watch. Initially, I thought, I bent  pivots . I just didn't see any flaws on the wheel.  To  make  sure I didn't damage the fourth wheel, I dismantled another ST-3600. The same problem occurred again. The fourth wheel refused to play nice with its neighbors.
...
I'm not planning to work on the Seagull movements in the future. I will include a disclaimer to my customers as to my opinion as to the life span of Seagull movements. I have found a wholesaler for the Seagull ST-3600 and will help when it comes to needed service . At the cost, it's like replacing a quartz movement.

http://www.asian-watches.com/2016/04/a-warning-about-seagull-st-3600-vs-eta.html

[rodabod]

I think the movement in question is a Pierce. It's the timegrapher which is Chinese.

[jdm]

13 minutes ago, rodabod said:

I think the movement in question is a Pierce. It's the timegrapher which is Chinese.

Right. Thank you for making me notice.

[RyMoeller]

18 hours ago, oldhippy said:

The balance wheel has been played about with. The timing screws do not match, one has been filed off, another has been fitted with a timing washer. The pin in the stud is a monster and should be replaced. I'm not surprised the watch isn't keeping good time. You need a new balance complete. Have you poised the balance?  

Well the monster pin was the obvious tip-off that the hairspring had been replaced!  I did poise the balance so ugly as it may be it has a nice weight distribution- it may not be too aerodynamically efficient though.  

I have to admit I do enjoy working on Pierce watches because you see all kinds of strange things when you crack them open.  This one had lots of tinkering done in the past.

The reason I alluded to the pallet possibility being the issue is that the watch wound down after I had removed the balance.  That's obviously not normal.  The pallet moved back and forth without the aid of the swinging balance so the jewels are not locking the escape wheel properly and how this manifests on the timegrapher I'm not sure.

I have a NOS balance (complete) and a few replacement pallet forks to play with so I'll do a little testing tonight.