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Bulova 11BLC....Where did this come from?


mcass

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OK Im trying to sort through this and came up with another question as I set the escape wheel. When setting it in the jewel, should any pressure be applied to it or does it basically just sit there? Does this make sense?

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WHat do you mean? Its lower pivot should go into the jewel...in that sense it sits there, but its not free.  No pressure should be needed to set the escape wheel into its jewel at all. Is the escape wheel pivot broken?

J

Edited by noirrac1j
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Escape wheel and pallet for are installed and appear to liine up correctly and function. Now the balance wheel....I see the is a single jewel coming off the balance staff....is that what hits the fork? Will it automatically go to where it is needed when set in place?

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Yes, that is the impulse jewel. It usually will automatically align itself in the general area, but you might have to give a light manipulation to the balance wheel ( with fine brass tweezers) to guide that impulse jewel  and get it to properly engage the end of the pallet fork.  You'll know when it is there because the escape wheel will move when the balance wheel moves.

J

Edited by noirrac1j
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When you put the escape wheel into its lower jewel a small gear on the escape wheel should be on the topside that engages the center wheel , or 3rd or 4th wheel . Before installing the pallet and it's pallet cock or bridge  , place the gear train bridge in place and before you tighten it down fully make sure that all of the gears turn smoothly , and together . if so then the top pivots are properly seated in the upper jewels . You should be able to tickle the center wheel and all the gears will move together including the escape wheel . If that is the case tighten the plate a little more and keep checking for free moving gears . Than you can install the pallet with the longer arm usually to the left side . place the pallet cock on the upper pallet pivot and tickle the center wheel again . If the pallet is seated properly the escape wheel will make the pallet fork move right and left . tighten the pallet cock screws a bit and make sure the pallet is seated in its jewels properly .  If that is the case Then you can install the balance wheel getting the impulse jewel in the pallet fork . Before you install the screw for the balance cock use a blower or tickle the balance wheel to see if you have full rotation of the balance . If it moves freely to one side but comes to a stop then the impulse jewel is not properly inserted into the pallet fork . It is on one side or the other of the fork . If the balance does swing freely then install the balance cock screw a bit at a time . If you have some turns on the main spring the watch should be running at this time .

Screen shot 2016-04-18 at 4.49.21 PM.png

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OK I backed up a bit to make sure this is right. Now that I have the pallet fork in place with it's top plate, and the balance wheel, I can physically see the balance wheel actuating the pallet smoothly and rythmically. Now for the escape wheel...

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30 minutes ago, mcass said:

OK I backed up a bit to make sure this is right. Now that I have the pallet fork in place with it's top plate, and the balance wheel, I can physically see the balance wheel actuating the pallet smoothly and rythmically. Now for the escape wheel...

...Should be moving if every thing is correct . If its not then it could be broken pivots on the pallet or escape wheel , broken or worn pallet jewels , escape wheel is not seated in its jewels properly , the escape wheel is in upside down ,etc .

Before you install the balance and pallets you have to make sure the train is moving smoothly . Look at my last post .

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8 minutes ago, ricardopalamino said:

...Should be moving if every thing is correct . If its not then it could be broken pivots on the pallet or escape wheel , broken or worn pallet jewels , escape wheel is not seated in its jewels properly , the escape wheel is in upside down ,etc .

Before you install the balance and pallets you have to make sure the train is moving smoothly . Look at my last post .

Ricardo is correct on all points. Also,  all the train gears should be in place and the gear plate secured (after you made sure the gears rotate freely) before you place the  pallet fork and balance.  You have to make sure the gears are properly lined up and can rotate completely smooth before you tighten the gear plate screws, or you will break a pivot!

Joe

Edited by noirrac1j
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Well I got it all back together and its still doing the same thing as last night. All the gears are moving freely but for some reason the escape wheel doesn't look like it is. It's basically not moving at all. If I tickle the balance wheel I can see the pallet fork wiggling back and forth. At one point I was able to get a full wind on the main spring but the balance would not not start. I tried loosing the top plate a little to see if that made a difference, the mainspring unwound and it seemed to allow the gears to move a little looser but no real noticeable difference other than that. All the gears moved except the escape wheel. Think Ill put it back in the box for the night. This really has me scratching my head. I do think there are some issues with the keyless works but I don't think that has anything to do with the aforementioned issues. Guess I picked a good one for my first.  It'll have to wait til Friday now before I have anymore time to play with this one. I do appreciate all the help by the way. Hopefully it'll pay off.

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Just maybe when the gears were freewheeling like I saw in your video the escape wheel pivot got broken and a piece of it is stuck in the jewel hole , or just maybe you have a broken or cracked jewel , top or bottom , for the escape wheel . That is why it is important to let down the mainspring power when disassembling a watch ,....so it doesn't spin out of control and break something . It seems that you will have to inspect pivots and jewels .

Good idea to put it aside for a while and come back fresh . Don't worry , you'll get it .

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On 4/19/2016 at 8:36 PM, noirrac1j said:

Mcass,

I looked through my extensive parts bin and....I found a Bulova 11BLC. The pallet looks pretty good. You can have it free if you want it. You can have any part(s) that you see in the pictures. Pay the shipping (you live in U.S. I think) and its yours. PM me.

 

Regards

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I'll take you up on that! I found the screw I had lost but not the second hand pinion. Not sure what may or may not be broke yet but having extra parts to rejuvenate this thing would sure help! 

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44 minutes ago, mcass said:

I'll take you up on that! I found the screw I had lost but not the second hand pinion. Not sure what may or may not be broke yet but having extra parts to rejuvenate this thing would sure help! 

Hey mcass,

Sure you can have the sweep second hand pinion. I like to help out and the best way I can. In my slightly limited experience as a watch repairer,I've discovered having a spare part is a major stress reliever when something goes wrong or gets lost.  Send me your address via  PM so I can figure out shipping.

 

Anything else you want from the movement? 

Edited by noirrac1j
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Sitting here I thought of a couple of questions that are somewhat related and not related to this project if anyone has some answers......

  1. Will parts from one watch manufacturer fit another manufacturers movement?
  2. When looking for a "project watch" on eBay for instance, most say for "parts or repairs". My first thought is that these are mostly posted by other hobbyists that couldn't figure out how to bring them back to life (maybe not). I wonder though why they end up on eBay in that condition rather than being repaired. The question this brings to mind is are there any watch conditions that one would just simply stay away from. 
  3. Tied to the above question, are most of these watches that say "for repair or parts", generally complete movements or are many of them literally missing parts?
  4. To sum all of the above, what to buy? what to restore or repair? what to stay away from?

I'm having so much fun with trying to get this first one running I'm already looking for the one that comes after it!

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26 minutes ago, mcass said:

Friday night I'll have time to open her back up and inspect the jewels and pivots and I'll let you know what I find. May post pics if I am unsure what I'm looking at. Thanks N!

 

OK thats sounds good.

FYI: In a separate container, I also found the drive gears, barrel+mainspring, barrel bridg, hour/min wheel, cannon pinion, the keyless works, the ratchet wheel/click spring, and the crown wheel. It looks like a complete movement....oh yeah, wrapped in watchmaker paper and tucked into a little box I also have the balance and it looks good. I don't even remember how I got this movement, but I think I bought a lot of  4or 5 Bulovas to get at an 11ANACB part I needed for a 333 oceanographer watch. This particular movement I didn't really use for much.

 

Once you identify what you require, you'll get what you need to get your project running. There plenty of knowledgeable and helpful fellows here that can help identify stuff if you post the picture.

You're doing great!

J

Edited by noirrac1j
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10 hours ago, mcass said:

Sitting here I thought of a couple of questions that are somewhat related and not related to this project if anyone has some answers......

  1. Will parts from one watch manufacturer fit another manufacturers movement?
  2. When looking for a "project watch" on eBay for instance, most say for "parts or repairs". My first thought is that these are mostly posted by other hobbyists that couldn't figure out how to bring them back to life (maybe not). I wonder though why they end up on eBay in that condition rather than being repaired. The question this brings to mind is are there any watch conditions that one would just simply stay away from. 
  3. Tied to the above question, are most of these watches that say "for repair or parts", generally complete movements or are many of them literally missing parts?
  4. To sum all of the above, what to buy? what to restore or repair? what to stay away from?

I'm having so much fun with trying to get this first one running I'm already looking for the one that comes after it!

Generally no , parts from one manufacturer will not fit anothers , with a few small exceptions . In the case of your watch , yours is Swiss probably made by ETA , AS , or ? The specific parts by that Swiss manufacture with the movement # stamped under your balance should work . 

  Many project watches that are for parts or repair are not from watch hobbyists , but people that buy estates sales or other "pickers" that don't usually work on watches . You have to ask them questions , look at what they offer , and take your chances with no return . If it is a Seiko pr Citizen , for example , I might buy a low cost complete watch from India or other private seller . Beware the watches from India may not be original , have mixed interchangeable parts from another caliber ,etc. , ....but may have a complete case , good crystal , or the part you are looking for that may not be available sold separately .

What you buy is a matter of personal choice .  I started out buying inexpensive vintage watch lots to practice on ., and started building my spares stash . Start with ,for example  , Seikos' whose calibers are in abundance such as Cal. 7002 , 7005 , 7006 , 6309 , etc . to help you get experience . 

Look at Youtube videos of teardowns and reassembly s , ...for instance on Mark Lovics Watch repair channel and others  . look in this forum at the watch repair advice .

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I am thinking your problem is related to one I have frequently. If your train wheels are moving freely but the pallet is locked up, it's very likely that the escape wheel or the pallet is not lined up in their respective jewels. Tickle each one to see if both are moving freely. If not, remove the train bridge and realign one or both. I frequently have this problem and it's manifested by the fact that barrel simply unwinds when power is applied. 

 

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It turned out that even though I asked the question " Which way does the pallet fork go in?", I still had it in wrong. It was upside down. Pretty excited to see it beat. Couple of questions now that I have made it this far....

  1. The only oil I have is Moebius 8000/4 Swiss. Will it be OK to use on this watch?
  2. Where exactly do you apply oil?
  3. I still am questioning the operation of the crown. How should it work? Basically I am having to pull it all the way out to wind the main spring. Then when I push it back in and turn it, the main spring does not wind but I do see gears on the other side of the movement turn. Does this seem correct? I am assuming these are the hand pinions (I only have one on there right now).
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32 minutes ago, mcass said:

It turned out that even though I asked the question " Which way does the pallet fork go in?", I still had it in wrong. It was upside down. Pretty excited to see it beat. Couple of questions now that I have made it this far....

  1. The only oil I have is Moebius 8000/4 Swiss. Will it be OK to use on this watch?
  2. Where exactly do you apply oil?
  3. I still am questioning the operation of the crown. How should it work? Basically I am having to pull it all the way out to wind the main spring. Then when I push it back in and turn it, the main spring does not wind but I do see gears on the other side of the movement turn. Does this seem correct? I am assuming these are the hand pinions (I only have one on there right now).

Moebius 8000 is a natural oil, and a little too viscous for the fine pivots of this Bulova. BUT I have read that it is OK for general use in wristwatches.

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/oils

I oild my watches very spairingly abd have used this PDF as a guide:

http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/BTI-The_Practical_Lubrication_of_Clocks_and_Watches.pdf

 

Something is wrong with the keyless works or the placement of the setting lever if you have to pull the crown all the way out to wind the mainspring. Take a close up of the keyless works especially where the setting lever is supposed to meet the stem. Maybe that will shed light on the problem.

JC

Edited by noirrac1j
typo
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