Elgin Mainspring Problems?

[ramrod]

i received via the mail today, a very nice elgin automatic. it's my first elgin watch. 35mm, cream dial. it needs a light polish and some scratch removal on the crystal.

i like the fact that it can be wound manually, also. i did wind it manually and noticed that when i stopped, several times i could hear a "zip!" noise coming from inside of the case. is that the sound of the mainspring slipping? is it even possible for a mainspring to slip?

 

 

 

 

[oldhippy]

Auto m/springs are meant to slip, I've never come across an auto that can't be manually wind, that is the way to start off the watch. Auto m/springs can be a pain, the reason I say this because until you take the barrel out and take the cap off it will be heard to tell. In the past I've had the whole of the slip spring come away from the spring.

[Geo]

I've never come across an auto that can't be manually wind, that is the way to start off the watch.

If you mean by shaking the watch you are correct, of you mean by winding the crown you are wrong.

A huge percentage of Seiko automatic watches cannot be wound by the crown. Just look up information on the Seiko magic finger autos. My le' Coultre Futurematic doesn't have a conventional crown and also has to be wound by shaking.

[oldhippy]

If you mean by shaking the watch you are correct, of you mean by winding the crown you are wrong.

A huge percentage of Seiko automatic watches cannot be wound by the crown. Just look up information on the Seiko magic finger autos. My le' Coultre Futurematic doesn't have a conventional crown and also has to be wound by shaking.

Thanks Geo for putting me right my grey cells are what they used to be.

[syfre]

 I've never come across an auto that can't be manually wind, that is the way to start off the watch. .

 

I agree except for some modern watches, I have an Orion automatic for example that can't be wind manually.

[ramrod]

there are about 3 or 4 seiko models that can be wound manually. that is what i like about bulova watches - the manual winding capability.

[digginstony]

Absolutely agree with ramrod. Awful design not to have a manual wind facility

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[jdm]

Absolutely agree with ramrod. Awful design not to have a manual wind facility

It's not a matter of design, but something done to contain cost and differentiate products. Beside, on watches with screwdown crowns like Seiko divers, manual winding is unpractical. Works very good on watches worn everyday, as allow the crown to be recessed since is not used often - again an almost unique Seiko 5 feature.

Edited March 5, 2016 by jdm

[digginstony]

Still think I would always opt for an Auto with manual wind. Regards dive watches, most spend their lives on dry land or the occasional dip in the pool. Most 5bar watches would survive that without any trouble. My old Swatch auto survived under a waterfall without any trouble and at best it's only 3bar if that. It still functions better than my new Rotary Auto but it has a nice eta movement fitted.

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[jdm]

Regards dive watches, most spend their lives on dry land or the occasional dip in the pool.

My point was not about water resistance, but simply that any watch with a screw down crown requires two more operations to wind it. That makes manual winding less practical, and exposes the threading to more manipulation and possibility of damage. In that sense a "pure automatic" movement makes more sense.

[digginstony]

Well nobody could argue with the Seiko5 longevity of service

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[Marc]

As jdm says, the omission of manual wind on the lower end Seiko's is down to designing down to a budget.

Seiko's approach reduced the number of components in the winding system thus simplifying assembly and reducing costs.

Seiko have managed this extremely effectively as can be seen by the number of vintage "magic lever" winding movements that can still be found in excellent working order after decades of not being wound by the crown. The fact that this system is still in use, virtually unchanged, is testimony to the effectiveness and robustness of the design.

 

If however you explore the slightly higher budget ranges, from the mid range Lord-Matics upwards, you will find that most (if not all) boast a much more Swiss design of auto winding system which facilitates manual winding, but is more expensive to build. They are typically very nice movements too, every bit as good or better than Swiss offerings in the same price bracket.

[digginstony]

It's all a matter of preference. I would always opt for an Auto with a manual wind facility. I wasn't as such referring to water proofing but that most watches in use are hardly ever used to justify being a divers watch in any case.

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[jdrichard]

I just removed the mainspring from the barrel on the 6139 I am working on. As a newbie was wondering if I can use moebus 1300 on the barrel wall. Does it matter? I also had the hardest time manually putting the spring back in but I did it. Now I'm not sure if it has to hook to the barrel arbor right away or will it hook when it is wound?

Note that I also have D5 and could have perhaps used it for the barrel walls?? Not sure. I did not oil the main spring, I just put a few drops of 1300 on the wound spring. Did I totally screw up or is all ok?

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Edited March 6, 2016 by jdrichard

[digginstony]

Hook the spring to the arbor. You might get lucky but chances are it will slip if you don't . It's better to use mainspring grease on the barrel wall prior to assembly. But you got the spring into position anyhow. A lot of old timers with pocket watches used to put a few drops of oil on the spring once in the barrel. You should be fine. Give it a go and see what happens.

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[jdrichard]

How does one hook the spring into the barrel. All I saw was a notch on the arbor.

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[digginstony]

It's the notch you attach it to. Try to manipulate the end shape of the spring with a pair of tweezers to fit over the notch.

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[digginstony]

Forgot to say. Should be a hole in the end piece of the spring and that's what fits into the notch

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[jdrichard]

Forgot to say. Should be a hole in the end piece of the spring and that's what fits into the notch

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Ok I get it now

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[Geo]

I just removed the mainspring from the barrel on the 6139 I am working on. As a newbie was wondering if I can use moebus 1300 on the barrel wall. Does it matter? I also had the hardest time manually putting the spring back in but I did it. Now I'm not sure if it has to hook to the barrel arbor right away or will it hook when it is wound?

Note that I also have D5 and could have perhaps used it for the barrel walls?? Not sure. I did not oil the main spring, I just put a few drops of 1300 on the wound spring. Did I totally screw up or is all ok?

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Don't use 1300 or D5 for the barrel wall, it is too slippy. I usually wipe the mainspring with D5, and lubricate the barrel wall 8213 braking grease. The braking grease is required to give the correct slip/grip between the spring and the barrel wall in an automatic.

If you have only put a couple of small drops on the wound you may be OK. But it would have been better to have wiped the spring very lightly with 1300 when it was out of the barrel. That would have lessened the possibility of the oil getting on the barrel wall.

[jdrichard]

I don't want to but a could do this again:(

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[Geo]

I wouldn't lose sleep over it JD, there will be no harm done to the watch. If the spring slips too early during winding, it will only reduce the time the watch will run from a fully wound (when the spring slips) until the watch stops. If you wear it constantly, you may never know there is an issue.